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Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions

Posted by tbolt64 
Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 11:55AM
Quote
tbolt64
I was thinking of hacking up an Escort. I thought a 2300 or 2500 (Lima series) rwd Escort with a t5 would be a blast so long as the rear suspension could be figured out.

If I could find a Merkur Xr4TI I would be quite happy, they are just few and far between. I know that overseas the Sierra was rallied successfully. I'd want to run NA until I got the feel for the car and rally driving in general.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a live axle, and I don't think there's anything "right" with a strut rear end. I was just thinking Subaru bits seem quite durable and plentiful.

Well look at it this way. You already are going to have to make a new firewall and trans tunnel and go with a fuel cell in the trunk. Raising the floor a bit more and going with a solid axle is not that much extra work in the meantime. And it won't suck.



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tbolt64
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 01:23PM
Pete,

I raced the 2000cc "pinto" motor... The 2300 "Lima" engines (especially the destroked 2.0) aren't half the engine that the "pinto" engine is.

My thinking on the use of the Subaru pieces on an escort is that the second gen. Fwd Escort already has a subframe that is similar to the Subaru with lateral links and trailing arms. I know similar does not mean the same, just like with the Pinto and Lima engines.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 01:41PM
Quote
Pete
Quote
tbolt64
That motor is the German solid lift 2.0... A 8,000 rpm freak on a leash that is dead until 4,000 rpm.

Don't you need an extended cab truck to have enough room for a proper cage?

The 2 liter in the Ranger is a Lima engine. It is a debored 2.3l Lima. It shares nothing with the "Pinto" OHC engine other than most of the bellhousing pattern and superficial design details.

Biiiiiiig difference.

Here's the full run down of interchange:
Pilot bearing
auxiliary shaft thrust plate and its 2 screws
Also used for locating cams in Limas.
Sump drain screw

BOTH have the exact same problems: a short block hgt meaning stock rods are short and so a poor R/S ratio..

Both have maddening importance to valve stem tip height...must be perfect of ALL valve train geometry is fuxxored.

Both Pinto and Lima have disgusting horrible ports for n.a. use---which work just fine in turbo form


Both have pretty easy cures for all the problems



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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 02:56PM
Quote
tbolt64


If I could find a Merkur Xr4TI I would be quite happy, they are just few and far between. I know that overseas the Sierra was rallied successfully. I'd want to run NA until I got the feel for the car and rally driving in general.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a live axle, and I don't think there's anything "right" with a strut rear end. I was just thinking Subaru bits seem quite durable and plentiful.

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5361724330.html $1000

http://corpuschristi.craigslist.org/cto/5356683259.html $2800

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/5349651828.html $1800

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/5374447919.html $2000

http://porthuron.craigslist.org/cto/5330530706.html?lang=sv $800


You'd be crazy to ignore what realy is a simple version of the Ford..simpler but in the end using a whole lotta the exact same parts...with nice simple solid axle that works just fine

http://macon.craigslist.org/cto/5384091255.html $1300

https://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/5383575274.html $1500

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5378869510.html $900

https://ithaca.craigslist.org/cto/5358536282.html $600---runs

http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/5346556590.html $900

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/cto/5362045572.html $500 out here

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/5336541332.html $599 with manual and B23

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/5342412348.html $550

http://images.craigslist.org/00j0j_fZBsFtwm2EU_600x450.jpg $950


https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/5381600233.html $1000 obo


Very easy to work on .. I'm a Saab and a Ford guy

This is what I did just a couple of days ago:


That's for a seller car

And same time this:



This is one of mine:


This is the nearly drop in alternate powerplant


I've been in Euro powered Fords since 1974....built hundreds..(was full time business for a couple of decades)

But I have no qualms, not worries at all diving into a 240 Volvo.

They are virtually the same engine layout, same bore, same stroke, same head bolt spacing...and if you mill Volvo head more than oh say 1.6--1.7mm you use the Euro 2,0 "Real Pinto" cam belt.

I use the same pressure plate, same turbos, same gearbox, same LSD and same gears, same shocks, same calipers, same a lotta stuff between Xratties and Volvo...

But both work superbly as we have been seeing in the last few years...
Work superbly, good enough for Club 2wd wins and top 2-3 2wd cars overall

For a whole lot less money to build and run than most other cars, especially considering results..

And maybe you have to search a bit, but there are plenty still lurking around
Few cars are simpler to swap from automatics to manual than these 2 cars...so don't fret if a "victim" car is auto..

Richmond VA is home to one of the more alert and dedicated Volvo builders i know of. a Good guy--we work a lot together..If you go that route I'll put you in touch.



John Vanlandingham
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Pete
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 03:35PM
Quote
tbolt64
Pete,

I raced the 2000cc "pinto" motor... The 2300 "Lima" engines (especially the destroked 2.0) aren't half the engine that the "pinto" engine is.

My thinking on the use of the Subaru pieces on an escort is that the second gen. Fwd Escort already has a subframe that is similar to the Subaru with lateral links and trailing arms. I know similar does not mean the same, just like with the Pinto and Lima engines.

I know that they're totally different animals. Just wanted to make sure you knew that the 2.0 from the Ranger is no way nohow the Pinto engine.

The thing with the rear suspension is that it is okay in a FWD but it is not really so good for putting power down in a RWD. A solid axle with proper links geometry kicks ass. The setup in the Escort and Subaru isn't really so good at putting power down, not without being "pre loaded" by the front axle shifting load back, and even then you're still not putting all of the power down through the rear wheels.

Yeah, you probably could knock together something to bolt in, after all that chassis was AWD in some markets so maybe the main floorpan differences were in the tunnel and not the whole rear chassis rail setup... but if one is going to go through all that effort, why stop there?

Of course the real answer is to not reinvent the wheel in the first place.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

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1978
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NoCoast
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 03:44PM
Subaru RWD. Sure it can be done.
How does geometry change in the rear as you go through suspension travel in an AWD vs RWD car?
What is ideal in both situations?

I don't know the exact answers but I know its not the same answer. This whole idea sounds like a recipe for a piss poor handling abandoned well before its done type project.
Want to rally, build or buy a rally car. Wanna build something unique, buy some Legos.



Grant Hughes
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tbolt64
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 03:53PM
Thanks for the heads up on the Volvos, John. Actually I know of a few "victim" cars available very close by.

I do have an affinity for the Fords, I must admit.

Pete, I appreciate the information about the Subaru rear pieces. It hadn't occurred to me that the rear would need to be preloaded by power from the front axle. Thanks especially for advising I not "reinvent the wheel".
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 04:04PM
Quote
tbolt64
Thanks for the heads up on the Volvos, John. Actually I know of a few "victim" cars available very close by.

I do have an affinity for the Fords, I must admit.

Pete, I appreciate the information about the Subaru rear pieces. It hadn't occurred to me that the rear would need to be preloaded by power from the front axle. Thanks especially for advising I not "reinvent the wheel".

Yeah? I guess you could do some mental gymnastics and reason like "Let's see...dis decades long Ford guys says Volvos are like a big MkII Ford Escort....and then Ford themselves musta like Volvo since they bought the whole shebang...so maybe I could squint and think "Yeah I'll be putting a buncha Ford stuff on it ....besides, its just a tool....I don't get picky if its a Kamasa or a Stahlwille or a Proto or a Slide-off wratchet wrench, long as it works like its spossed to.."

Both are right sized, not too heavy, have VERY reliable, VERY simple engines, very good oil pumps, and can EASILY make all the power needed to win. And you only have to buy 4 of things when you want to build one...
Like 4 of these Soooper Bitchin JVAB 139mm c-c rods (actually made for Euro Pinto for Appendix K FIA Classic cars)



Then you get some nice flat top pistons 7mm shorter and have nice light reciprocating parts and wake the motor up..



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Pete
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 04:26PM
Damn! And I thought my Audi things with their 136mm rods were short rod engines.

On the other hand I suppose I already knew this... the stock 2.3 rods are useful for "315" mini-stroker Ford 302 engines. You offset-grind the crank to a slightly longer stroke, use the 5.2" 302 rods (which are .2" LONGER than the V8 rods...) and use a certain Chevy piston. More stroke, longer rods, and lighter pistons, can't go wrong with that.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 03, 2016 09:04PM
Quote
Pete
Damn! And I thought my Audi things with their 136mm rods were short rod engines.

On the other hand I suppose I already knew this... the stock 2.3 rods are useful for "315" mini-stroker Ford 302 engines. You offset-grind the crank to a slightly longer stroke, use the 5.2" 302 rods (which are .2" LONGER than the V8 rods...) and use a certain Chevy piston. More stroke, longer rods, and lighter pistons, can't go wrong with that.

Uh.
Details are a pain.
Ford 302====5.090...and maybe 21mm wide 2.125" journal
Ford 2,3====5.200 c-c and 25,4mm? wide....0.912 pressed pin...52mm journal

Chev is 0.927 pin and commonly 2.1" journal

Whatever. People do all kinda of strange things

What I was doing with those was going from Euro Pintoid 126mm c-c rod to +13mm so piston went -13 from 41,6mm comp hgt to 28,6mm flat tops
And same time I did some at 144mm for a OHC Saab up from 134mm so piston went from 40mm comp hgt down to 30...over 300g less in both cases
Worked good for both..Escort guy won next time out and Saab guy was 3rd or 4th...Very happy
Pintoid, Lima, Saab and Opel alll have 52mm journal and are all within 010 of same width...
Make some things easier.



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Just West of Virginia
January 17, 2016 09:19AM
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1988 XR for sale

Unread postby Agoffreda ยป Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:29 pm
I live In spencer west virginia. Have a 1988 xr, doesnt run but body is almost flawless. No rust or dents, factory red. Needs a wash and motor work, perfect project car and have shop manual its just out of order. I dont want to see it go to a junkyard. Asking $1250 but very negotiable. Reach me at 3043778120. Can text pictures. Id assum 118k miles.

Even has a phone number. Imagine that?



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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 17, 2016 11:15AM
that is not to far from me



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 17, 2016 02:50PM
Richmond VA
1985 Mercury Merkur XR4Ti - $1500 (Richmond)


http://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/5376860507.html



John Vanlandingham
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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 17, 2016 03:10PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Richmond VA
1985 Mercury Merkur XR4Ti - $1500 (Richmond)


http://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/5376860507.html

where do these cars rust? floors, frame rails, rear suspension mounts?



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Re: Subaru rear crossmember for RWD conversions
January 17, 2016 05:06PM
Quote
tdrrally
Quote
john vanlandingham
Richmond VA
1985 Mercury Merkur XR4Ti - $1500 (Richmond)


http://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/5376860507.html

where do these cars rust? floors, frame rails, rear suspension mounts?

Pinch weld at bottom of sills.
Floor to sill junction..
And I don't know what "frame rails" are

Some at bottom of doors---easy replacements are available for inner and outer door skins, and outer sill..



John Vanlandingham
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