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Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal

Posted by Nubby 
Nubby
Tony Wells
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SP Evo IX #112



Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 04, 2016 11:57AM
Some pics of the front suspension progress:









The reason those schrader valves are sitting there is the top-pin has been gun-drilled so we have a way to de/pressurize the shock, the hole just hadn't been tapped yet when the pics were taken. Makes the universal struts truly user-serviceable. That bushing that got bent in shipping has since been replaced.

I have some Bilstein ASN shocks on order that will get adapted for the rear which will require converting them to clevis mount for the LCA.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 04, 2016 03:24PM
What travel and valving did you decide on?

I just did some EVO fronts and working on getting articulation in the upper ball joint in the rear for more movement--
You should note that the B46 fambly rear Bilsteins for Evo 8---with the lower clevis thing already---has internal spacers which can be removed adding another roughly 60mm travel---



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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Nubby
Tony Wells
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Location: Omaha, NE
Join Date: 07/08/2008
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 191

Rally Car:
SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 04, 2016 03:48PM
7.8" travel, not sure how much of that I'll actually get with the ~25mm bump stop.

Here's the valving I chose/guessed and I'm all ears if I f**ked it up:

Front: 345-140D
Rear: 275-110D

Yup, digressively valved.

Here's the corner weights, sans meat sacks:



The reason I chose the ASN (soon to be superceded by the AS2) is the shrader valve is already there and serviceability is big on our list. Fabbing the adapter won't be a big deal since I'm not the person who has to do it. smiling smiley

I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to the Evo rear suspension, even with no shock attached the droop is pretty limited.
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deaner
Dane Aura
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 05, 2016 06:56PM
Puuuuuurty
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DaveK
Dave Kern
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 08, 2016 04:29PM
Quote
Nubby
I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to the Evo rear suspension, even with no shock attached the droop is pretty limited.

Installing the ohlins is a task and a half. Been a while, but I seem to remember having someone hang on the brake/hub to try and pull it down enough to stuff the damper in there. Quite possibly one of the only good things about having a tarmac evo is installing the way short dampers is a cakewalk. LOL

Dave
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Nubby
Tony Wells
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Location: Omaha, NE
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SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 08, 2016 04:39PM
Consider yourself lucky, With the Malaysia's Finest ™ currently on the car, I have to drop the lower control arm at the spindle to get the rear shocks off which is a joy.

Fixing that issue is going to be high on the list for the Bilsteins.
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DaveK
Dave Kern
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 08, 2016 04:42PM
Quote
Nubby
Fixing that issue is going to be high on the list for the Bilsteins.

Any chance running a hillclimb in Colorado is on that list? Would be cool to have a couple Evos out this summer. smiling smiley Rumor is there's a ralliart also getting prepped in Denver as well.

Dave
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Nubby
Tony Wells
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Location: Omaha, NE
Join Date: 07/08/2008
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SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
January 11, 2016 09:39AM
Quote
DaveK
Quote
Nubby
Fixing that issue is going to be high on the list for the Bilsteins.

Any chance running a hillclimb in Colorado is on that list? Would be cool to have a couple Evos out this summer. smiling smiley Rumor is there's a ralliart also getting prepped in Denver as well.

Dave

Right now the plan is just Headwaters and Ojibwe for this year although I'd like to get a hillclimb in the mix for next year.
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Nubby
Tony Wells
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Location: Omaha, NE
Join Date: 07/08/2008
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Posts: 191

Rally Car:
SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
April 22, 2016 10:50AM
Clevis adapters for the ASN's for the rear are done:



And they'll go on the piston rod end of these:



So the rears will be inverted. I've got some Bilstein shock boots on the way to protect the piston rod. Last thing to make is new rear top mounts to interface with the eyelet on the body of the shock. Car goes to the machinist May 3rd to finish all this up so more pics to come.
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Nubby
Tony Wells
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Location: Omaha, NE
Join Date: 07/08/2008
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SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
May 18, 2016 06:57PM
Suspension is done, here's some pictars:



Oh, look at that glorious droop travel!









Only have a short test drive to go by but soooooo much better than what was on the car. The rear valving needs more rebound damping but we got no time before Headwaters to order the shims. We can deal with it but will need to be addressed.

Get back to me on Monday, but at the moment I'm sold on Bilstein non-adjustable stuff.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
May 19, 2016 01:28AM
I just did some 8.8in Bilsteins for the rally brick. I'm glad I had the old JVAB stuff to go off of and modify, because it was still a lot of freaking work!

Valving is like 290/125.
Pics are from mock-up, hence no brakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2016 09:06AM by Robert Culbertson.
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Nubby
Tony Wells
Godlike Moderator
Location: Omaha, NE
Join Date: 07/08/2008
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 191

Rally Car:
SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
May 19, 2016 08:57AM
Yeah, this ended up being a lot more work than I had originally imagined.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
May 19, 2016 09:34AM
Quote
Nubby
Yeah, this ended up being a lot more work than I had originally imagined.

And you guys aren't making the tubes and the bottoms, and the bushings and making you own upper and lower spring seats* and lock rings, then getting things zinc plated and anodized and making sure that is done right....there's something to be said about production even if it is in short runs or 40-50 units at one time.




* I make my own because I don't like the ones supplied..The upper is already partially machined and both have a register for 2 1/2" ID spring...I don't like the limited choice of springs in the "barrel" configuration or the idea of the spring being so close to the body that it will possibly rub.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
May 19, 2016 10:24AM
The upper spring hat is definitely odd, especially with the 25deg taper on the bottom side. I do like the upper perches you provide.
The Bilstein lower spring seat is decent, and you can always add a spring adapter to take it up to a 3in ID spring. 3in springs are definitely easier to work with if you have the perches already.

I found that Swift offers 2.5in barrel springs in 25lb/in increments until you get to a 16in long spring, then it's 50 lbs/in. They are definitely expensive ($110 each), but they offer mega travel for the spring length. The corner weight, spring preload, and length all worked out on the Volvo for a 14in x 225 lb/in Swift spring (about a 1/2-3/4in of preload at full droop btw).
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Nubby
Tony Wells
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Location: Omaha, NE
Join Date: 07/08/2008
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 191

Rally Car:
SP Evo IX #112



Re: Bilstein Universal Struts -- Now Less Universal
May 27, 2016 10:50AM
We didn't make Headwaters, my father-in-law was admitted to the ER that Friday and passed on Saturday. RIP Bob, you were a cool dude and you will be missed.

On a happier note. H*LY F*CK*NG SH*T is the new suspension better! We used a highly scientific method to check the damping which was drive over those big 2-foot wide speed bumps that street cars have to come a near stop to clear except do it at 40 MPH. The lack of rear rebound damping was immediately obvious, the rear rebounded too quickly and took about 2.5 oscillations before it settled down. The rear shocks got revalved, I took it out again and it was completely composed over those things at 50 MPH.

There's broken/choppy concrete on that same stretch of road and it feels freshly paved. I don't know exactly what was going on with the old stuff, but it seemed to suffer from a lot of sticktion. You had to put a pretty good force into them before they would move, and hence it was like having solid dampers over any small road imperfection.

The rear suspension is now so much more compliant, I don't know how the old stuff was valved but even full soft it felt like it was valved for 1000 lb-in springs.

It corners about as flat as it did with the old stuff. I'm still running sway bars BTW.

So now I do more testing out on gravel roads to see if the valving needs any more tweaking but right now I'm a Bilstein super fan. I never knew how shit the car was because I had no point of comparision.
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