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Diagnosing and repairing motor problem

Posted by Morten 
Jens
Jens
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Re: Morton...BUMP PUSH THE CAR!
February 17, 2006 02:39PM
Morten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I backed off the altenator, and I can easily turn
> the alternator and waterpump by hand. Still can't
> budge the crank with a wrench.
>
> It felt like the tires locked when I tried to bum
> start it the last time.
>
> Skye it's easier for me to roll back because of
> the slope of the floor. Can I do this in reverse
> gear and still push the car ? That is after I put
> tape on the pulley.
>
> Jen's I'll try and swap out the battary.
>
> Is this possible (worst case scenario).
>
> That the motor spun a bearing, but wouldn't fire
> as i tried to crank it. Then after it sat for a
> while the spun bearing fused to the block ?


WAIT A MINUTE....

I thought you said you couldn't "bump" it, because of your garage floor. If you can put it in gear and move the car forward or backward, do it!!!!

If you can do this "bump" test and the crank doesn't turn, then forget about swapping out the battery. If the crank doesn't turn you have a mechanical problem (regardless of the battery condition).

I don't even want to guess about spun bearings without being there to see you pull off the pan.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2006 02:41PM by Jens.
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Jens
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 02:42PM
Morten,

forget the battery swap for the moment. See my post entitled "Morten...BUMP THE CAR".

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Morten
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 03:00PM
I can rock the car but I can't push it.

I stuck it in neutral and pushed it back a bit, thinking this wouldn't be possible if it was the diff. (flawed thinking ?)

Taking the oil pan off isn't an easy feat for me because I think i have to lift the motor to get to it. Am I right about this JVL ?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 03:03PM
Morten Wrote:

>
> Is this possible (worst case scenario).
>
> That the motor spun a bearing,
you would have absolutely HEARD A HELLOFA BADD RACKET.


but wouldn't fire
> as i tried to crank it. Then after it sat for a
> while the spun bearing fused to the block ?
no the clearaces in the bearing/journal would be GREATER than the 002 it was at.
If it siezedc a piston, but those were new pistons in used bores which were honed a smidge in a CK10 to make the bores straight and round, you have more than enough clearance.
>
> Might be a stupid question, because when I could
> cranked it, it wasn't even firing.

yep.






John Vanlandingham
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Skye
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 03:03PM
Rock it back (in gear), kick the 2x4 in front of the tire so it STAYS back, did the tape move?




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Jens
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 03:22PM
Morten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can rock the car but I can't push it.

> I stuck it in neutral and pushed it back a bit...


With the car in gear you cannot roll it at all, correct?
With the car in neutral it rolls, correct?

If BOTH conditions are true, then you have a mechanical problem regardless of the battery.

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Morten
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 04:36PM
Correct (Yes both are true).

Any suggestions on my next step ?
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Jens
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 06:24PM
Morten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correct (Yes both are true).
>
> Any suggestions on my next step ?


You have established there is a mechanical problem somewhere between the front pulley and the transmission.

Your previous comment that the oil pressure gauge started fluctuating before the engine died points to an engine problem.

I'm not trying to be mean, cruel, or a wise ass, but it sounds like you have reached the end of your current level of experience.

It is easy for me to tell you to pull the engine and tear it down, but I won't do that.

Find someone there to help you diagnose the problem.

Good luck.

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sagsert
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Re: Diagnosing and repairing motor problem
February 17, 2006 07:25PM
OK Next Step.

You may have a stuck starter.
Remove the starter and try to rotate the engine.



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M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
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Richard Miller
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Re: Diagnosing and repairing motor problem
February 17, 2006 08:39PM
Hence why I asked if you can here the Bendix drive engage and then disengage.



RichardM
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Jens
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Re: Diagnosing and repairing motor problem
February 17, 2006 08:54PM
Considering his oil pressure gauge data, the starter thing might be a long shot.... but it's worth a look see.

If that is the problem, it's less work than tearing down the engine.

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Rich Howard
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 17, 2006 09:11PM
Jaysus! This is like talking in a 747 with Jerry Lewis at the helm.

Remove radiator cap.

Reverse broken car

Insert good car

Replace radiator cap



Rich Howard
Indianapolis, Indiana
1967
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Jens
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Who's on first?
February 17, 2006 09:51PM
Rich Howard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jaysus! This is like talking in a 747 with Jerry
> Lewis at the helm.


Or Abbott and Costello....

"Who's on first. What's on second. I dunno's on third"

What?

http://www.phoenix5.org/humor/WhoOnFirst.html




"Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?"
More here: http://www.phoenix5.org/humor/Carlin.html





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2006 10:10PM by Jens.
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Morten
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Re: Diagnosing and repairing motor problem
February 18, 2006 10:25AM
I'll pull the starter and see, I'm all about the long shot at this point ! : )

Taro was here last night, and if I can find / rent and engine puller (not sure what it's called) then we're going to pull the motor here. Kirby has offered to come down from Squamish and pitch in too.

Thanks guys !

Then I need to find an engine machine shop that'll let me be present and help with the tear down / build so I can learn.

If this wouldn't have happened last weekend then it probably would have happened this weekend, and it would have happened on a cold snowy road while running Thunderbird.

It sucks, but I'm glad it happend close to home.
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Pete
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Re: Morton...DON'T USE A 3 FOOT BAR!
February 18, 2006 11:48AM
john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> but wouldn't fire
> > as i tried to crank it. Then after it sat for
> a
> > while the spun bearing fused to the block ?
> no the clearaces in the bearing/journal would be
> GREATER than the 002 it was at.

Theoretically, yeah.

But, in the field, I've done lots of engines were we had to drop the oil pan and loosen the main and rod caps just to get the crank to turn so the torque converter bolts can be removed. Especially fun in a 4WD truck(*) where you can't drop the pan, so you have to break the oil pan apart with air chisels.

Now that I think of it, I've only ever done one engine that failed a bearing and didn't sieze... it was also the only one that didn't lose all oil pressure. Coincidence?


(*) Site specific content: If you have a GM tow vehicle, take a look at your oil cooler hoses, slight leakage is the warning that they're ready to blow apart.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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