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XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?

Posted by dunhamr1 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 30, 2016 11:52PM
Quote
dunhamr1
Quote
Ascona73
Quote
dunhamr1
Is supra diff the be-all end-all? Are there any other cheap-ish LSD's that have a higher (lower) ratio that can be put in the back of an Xratty without too much fuss?

The beauty of the Supra diff is the ring and pinion from the 200 mm pickup truck diff fits.

So between the OEM stuff and aftermarket, you can get 3.07, 3.42, 3.54, 3.70, 3.91, 4.10, 4.30, 4.56, 4.88, 5.29, 5.71....

Aftermarket gears seldom cost more than $200 new, usually about $170-$180 depending on ratio and brand.

So you're saying it doesn't really matter which supra diff you get, you can change the ring and pinion to get what you want for not crazy money?

Right.. It is the ONLY Japanese axle that a) is big enough that there is a YUUUUUUGE margin of safety and
b) that you might just get a LSD in 98% of-a clutch plate diff---
c) if lucky get the ratio you need for a road car--3,73 or 3,9 or depending if you got the right gearbox even the 4,3 which came in ALL YEAR Automatics (and in the case of Volvo w same guts in a solid axle there are units out there with nice ratios for even n.a. cars like 4,63 or 4.88
d) ONLY Japanese axle you can get such a wide range of ratios for cheap...as cheap as US ring and pinions
e)STRONG output flanges,,Ford 9 inch size stub axles--no breaking them as those poor guys who drank the weak German cool aid and bought BMWs who keep breakin' stub shaft or output flanges again and again.

Can't do any alternate ratio of all those nice Nissan diffs short enough for n.a for less than one million dollah.

Also:
*there IS easy parts to hook up propshaft because of it's popularity---not so for other Japanese of the little German diffsthumbs down
* those yoke accept a BIG 1310 u-joint, one of the most common in America on the shelf in every Napa, O'Reilly's, Auto Zoo. Easy replaceable..Not so with any other Japanese or the little German diff thumbs down
*there are adaptors available to hook up the US market CV joints and the larger desirable bigger CV off the Cosworth 2wd cars--which is same size as 911 Turbo...Not so with any other Japanese or the little German diff thumbs down
*there is a nice kit to bolt the diff itself in already sold in the scores and scores and scores. Not so with any other Japanese or the little German diff thumbs down



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
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Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
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Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 09:59AM
Quote
dunhamr1
Now you guys got me looking!

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/pts/5458040832.html

$200 for the 4.3 NA diff. I know a rallyist in San Antonio that could pick it up... Very tempting.

That diff is too new, not the one you want.

That one probably looks like this

The one you want looks like this. Think they came in 1986 - 1992 MK3 supras
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dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Rally Car:
1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 11:20AM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Quote
dunhamr1
Now you guys got me looking!

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/pts/5458040832.html

$200 for the 4.3 NA diff. I know a rallyist in San Antonio that could pick it up... Very tempting.

That diff is too new, not the one you want.

That one probably looks like this

The one you want looks like this. Think they came in 1986 - 1992 MK3 supras

Any ratio? I know there's more optimal (4.3) but what else is decent? If one pops up for cheap but has a different ratio, I should still go for it?
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Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
Professional Moderator
Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
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Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 12:54PM
Quote
dunhamr1

Any ratio? I know there's more optimal (4.3) but what else is decent? If one pops up for cheap but has a different ratio, I should still go for it?

I have the 4.30 in my car and it is well worth finding one. The car really feels peppy with no added power. Also the 4.30 makes 2nd gear perfect for rallyx. One thing to realize is that these are starting to get old and the bearings and seals probably need to be changed. You will already be in the diff doing the solid spacer and adding the spacer and spring washers to set the preload to 250 ft-lbs, might as well make everything in there nice and fresh. This will require some special tools like a big bearing splitter and a dial indicator, as well as the CORRECT bearings and shims. (if you are going to rebuild one of these talk to me first so that you don't go through the sourcing headache I went through!!!) I think the going rate for a new ring and pinon is about $200-$250 so its worth paying a little more to get the right ring and pinion to start with.

That being said... I also picked up a 3.9 for cheap on ebay that I have as a spare (Or if i want to take the turbo off to run G2 and put some silly low gear in like 5.29).
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
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Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 01:08PM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Quote
dunhamr1

Any ratio? I know there's more optimal (4.3) but what else is decent? If one pops up for cheap but has a different ratio, I should still go for it?

I have the 4.30 in my car and it is well worth finding one. The car really feels peppy with no added power. Also the 4.30 makes 2nd gear perfect for rallyx. One thing to realize is that these are starting to get old and the bearings and seals probably need to be changed. You will already be in the diff doing the solid spacer and adding the spacer and spring washers to set the preload to 250 ft-lbs, might as well make everything in there nice and fresh. This will require some special tools like a big bearing splitter/puller and a dial indicator, as well as the CORRECT bearings and shims. (if you are going to rebuild one of these talk to me first so that you don't go through the sourcing headache I went through!!!) I think the going rate for a new ring and pinon is about $200-$250 so its worth paying a little more to get the right ring and pinion to start with.

That being said... I also picked up a 3.9 for cheap on ebay that I have as a spare (Or if i want to take the turbo off to run G2 and put some silly low gear in like 4.67 or 4.88).

Yeah if the price is right, grab any you get..


4.3 which is ideal for North American SSs is stock on all the automatics*..It is however kinda rare in the afterm,arket..
BUT!
I have 4-5 extra sets, and I can get more easily..maybe $130 a set when I run out...



*also stock manual non-turd-boat but not every one of those is LSD. Again, price. If cheep! cheep! cheep! get it.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
Professional Moderator
Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 01:25PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Thomas Kimsey


That being said... I also picked up a 3.9 for cheap on ebay that I have as a spare (Or if i want to take the turbo off to run G2 and put some silly low gear in like 4.67 or 4.88).

I said silly, not reasonable!
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dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Location: Dallas, TX
Join Date: 09/17/2015
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Posts: 140

Rally Car:
1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 02:01PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Quote
dunhamr1

Any ratio? I know there's more optimal (4.3) but what else is decent? If one pops up for cheap but has a different ratio, I should still go for it?

I have the 4.30 in my car and it is well worth finding one. The car really feels peppy with no added power. Also the 4.30 makes 2nd gear perfect for rallyx. One thing to realize is that these are starting to get old and the bearings and seals probably need to be changed. You will already be in the diff doing the solid spacer and adding the spacer and spring washers to set the preload to 250 ft-lbs, might as well make everything in there nice and fresh. This will require some special tools like a big bearing splitter/puller and a dial indicator, as well as the CORRECT bearings and shims. (if you are going to rebuild one of these talk to me first so that you don't go through the sourcing headache I went through!!!) I think the going rate for a new ring and pinon is about $200-$250 so its worth paying a little more to get the right ring and pinion to start with.

That being said... I also picked up a 3.9 for cheap on ebay that I have as a spare (Or if i want to take the turbo off to run G2 and put some silly low gear in like 4.67 or 4.88).

Yeah if the price is right, grab any you get..


4.3 which is ideal for North American SSs is stock on all the automatics*..It is however kinda rare in the afterm,arket..
BUT!
I have 4-5 extra sets, and I can get more easily..maybe $130 a set when I run out...



*also stock manual non-turd-boat but not every one of those is LSD. Again, price. If cheep! cheep! cheep! get it.

So if I could get a 3.91 LSD, with the right housing, for $200, or together with an open 4.3 for $300 that would be reasonable (but not cheep)? Worth looking into, or wait for something less spendy?
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Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
Professional Moderator
Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
March 31, 2016 08:16PM
I would say $300 is not a bad price. You can always sell the 3.9 ring and pinion.
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Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
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Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 07:38AM
Might be worth looking at. Should be close to you.

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dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Location: Dallas, TX
Join Date: 09/17/2015
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Posts: 140

Rally Car:
1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 09:45AM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Might be worth looking at. Should be close to you.


Hmmm that definitely seems worth looking into, it says it's the 4.3 LSD. Just over an hour's drive away, not bad at all.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 10:11AM
Quote
dunhamr1
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Might be worth looking at. Should be close to you.


Hmmm that definitely seems worth looking into, it says it's the 4.3 LSD. Just over an hour's drive away, not bad at all.

Print out a photo so you get the right thing.
5 speed TURBO should be 3,73 or 3,9...

AUTOMATIC turbo andnon-turbo 5 speed is 4,3 originally

But who can say now what's actually in any given car.
so

Look for sticker "LSD OIL ONLY"
Spin test
Count turns.
The difference 3,9 to 4,3 is obvious..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
Professional Moderator
Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 10:33AM
Listed as a 4.30 on car-part, but John is correct that given the car spec it shouldn't be a 4.30. Cant hurt to pick up the phone and call to see if they will check. At $150 (Haggle a bit and you could probably go a bit lower) it could be worth it as a spare or do a ratio swap. If you do grab it make sure to get the hardware with it.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 10:51AM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Listed as a 4.30 on car-part, but John is correct that given the car spec it shouldn't be a 4.30. Cant hurt to pick up the phone and call to see if they will check. At $150 (Haggle a bit and you could probably go a bit lower) it could be worth it as a spare or do a ratio swap. If you do grab it make sure to get the DRIVESHAFT and PROPSHAFT specialty hardware with it.

There, heppin ya out to be clearer-er.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
Professional Moderator
Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 12:52PM
Ja tack för att göra det klart.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Professional Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: XR4Ti build, possible future Rally car?
April 01, 2016 01:24PM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
Ja tack för att göra det klart.

Kein problem, junge.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
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