mhooper Michael Hooper Senior Moderator Location: Georgia Join Date: 09/08/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 65 Rally Car: ae86/gone |
Kicking around the idea of building another car. Looking at Mazdas for obvious reasons...
I have seen a lot of 1st gen RX7s, but not too many 2nd gens. 2nd gen would be my choice, but I am curious as to there limitations. Anybody here have considerable experience with 2nd gen RX7? Ive read here the front suspension is good, how bout rear? I remember from JDM days they have a big mustache style subframe and if memory serves pretty long arms... so maybe ok? What would stop one of these things from being at the front of 2wd? Full disclosure I'm not a huge fan of rotory and would be considering boosted duratec if that would fly for mazda contingency. Thanks fer thoughts.... |
Not Trolling Keith Morison Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 09/15/2015 Age: Ancient Posts: 340 |
My first rally car was a 2nd gen RX7 that I 'built.' It wasn't bad but wasn't ever going to be great.
With the current cage specs, I'd strongly advise looking at a shell with more room, mine was pre-256.8 spec, and tight for me at 6' tall. First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19) Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5) WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4) Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11) Last Updated, May30, 2022 |
mellow65 Oliver Klozoff Mod Moderator Location: Oregon Join Date: 09/10/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 480 Rally Car: Nada |
If you read the Mazda contingency rules, it doesn't cover engines. My subaru powered 1st gen is A ok in their book, or at least it was when I asked a while back. "Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty" |
Doivi Clarkinen Banned Godlike Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
I built arguably the most successful Gen. 2 RX7 in the U.S. Dave and Rick Hintz won several regional titles and the 2002 SCCA ProRally Group 5 national championship with it. It can be a good car but it does have it's weaknesses. Better choice than a Gen. 1, in my opinion. I don't know why some people are so against rotaries, it's hard to find a more reliable race engine. The Turbo 2 engine in that car was rebuilt in 1999, just before becoming a rally car, and that same engine is still running strong today. In fact it's never been out of the car since 1999. I wouldn't do a turbo rotary again, though. Too much trouble and expense trying to keep it cool and get a reliable turbo setup. It's been reliable for a long time but it took some development and it's more maintenance than N/A. Still, the power is good at 300+hp, depending on the boost but you can get plenty out of a good ported N/A motor.
Some things to keep in mind. You need to to lock up the passive rear wheel steering. There are kits for that. The rear suspension has a lot of camber change so it always wears the tires funny. The differential mount likes to break, even the Mazda Competition one. You need a good skidplate and underbody protection as the car is low and the exhaust system will be the biggest maintenance item on the car. |
Pete Pete Remner Senior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
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mhooper Michael Hooper Senior Moderator Location: Georgia Join Date: 09/08/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 65 Rally Car: ae86/gone |
Thanks everybody for the responses. I am hearing about the size quite a bit. Surprised FC smaller than FB adn FD. I'm 5'9" so not partiularly tall, but snug is no fun. Im gonna see if I can find one locally to sit in.
If Chuck Mc. could rally the snot out of one back in the day, surely I can fit. That was FB though. |
Not Trolling Keith Morison Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 09/15/2015 Age: Ancient Posts: 340 |
Sitting in a street version of the car is not the same as sitting in a caged version.
The snugness comes from the cage more than anything else, and some of it can be mitigated by how you do the door bars. First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19) Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5) WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4) Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11) Last Updated, May30, 2022 |
mhooper Michael Hooper Senior Moderator Location: Georgia Join Date: 09/08/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 65 Rally Car: ae86/gone |
Morrison... Thank you... I know, been in lotsa rally cars, built lotsa (well several anywho) rally cars... Good point though!
So, was just reviewing RA rules and the say OE ports for GR2. I'd wanna stay GR2. My understanding is that NA power comes from porting... Gonna consult google, but open to input on what you can actually get from oe ports NA. FC is not particularly light... Hmm. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
It's all down to the porting (since nobody ever bothered to fit reed valves and a proper expansion chamber). RA rule is brilliantly thought out. Just like all their incisive and unique interpretations of the rules...You'd have try hard to match the brilliance of their rules. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Ultra Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
I think I remember Mike Summers talking about the restriction of porting on his gen2 rx7 as one of the reasons he decided to build a gen1 rx7. He didn't want to have to change classes in order to make the car more competitive. If you really want to go down the 2nd gen road, his old car might be available.
Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
mhooper Michael Hooper Senior Moderator Location: Georgia Join Date: 09/08/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 65 Rally Car: ae86/gone |
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DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Ultra Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
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Gravity Fed Alex Staidle Godlike Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
Actaully the rules say oe porting and induction. I asked for clarification on induction. It requires the stock manifolds or carb. Personally i feel the rule is antiquated since we have 3.0l m3s running whatever the hell they want but an FB has to run a stock nikki carb. Without swappjng engines or maybe the renesis from an rx8, group 5 is almost a requirement,
First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch) Driver (0), Co-Driver (7) Organizer (3), Volunteer (3) Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5) Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023 |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Mega Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Why would you want to stay G2?
Having driven both 1st gen and 2nd gen RX7s extensively on the street. I agree that the 2nd gen is smaller on the inside (at least where it counts as a driver) than the 1st or 3rd gen cars. 1st gen pros: Looks Interior space Weight 1st gen cons: Rear suspension binds reticulated ball steering is awful Brakes are meh 2nd gen pros: easier to find? better steering up front larger wheel wells for rally tire great brakes stock 2nd gen cons: floor pan and roofline make cockpit unreasonably small rear steer stuff makes car wonky at the limit especially under braking weight ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
Pete Pete Remner Senior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
2nd gen actually can make power... with a G2 legal engine you can make 200ish HP. The stock intake is pretty dang good as OE manifolds go and the stock porting is too big, if anything.
Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |