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RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks

Posted by mhooper 
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Alex Staidle
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1978 Mazda Rx7



Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 12, 2016 09:11PM
In regards to Wimpey, thats why i did the "Gen 1.5". FB body with FC front suspension and brakes and steering. Then a toyota 8inch in the rear.



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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 14, 2016 08:12PM
Josh, main reason to stay gr 2... competition... At SD I think there were 16 G2 and 2-3 G5 cars. Maybe SD event is a poor example.. Good points bout FB vs FC

peaky 200 hp in 2700 pound car...hard to hang with the afore mentioned M3 powered E30s in the straights.

I'm gonna shelf this idea for now, neither chassis seems that great compared to the E30 and dont see a straight forward path to making them super competitive... Thanks for all the input!
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 14, 2016 08:16PM
Alex, what lug pattern did you run? I'm assuming 8" was 6 lug to start.. Thats a lot of dif! They are super stout, even in pickups. And come from factory as low as 4.88. Did you fix the FB "binding" issue Josh mentioned in the rear?..
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 14, 2016 08:52PM
Fixing the binding is super super easy. It's so simple even I can do it.

Rotaries are the opposite of peaky. They make power pretty much anywhere the tach is pointing at a number, although with the stock porting the meat of the powerband is 5000-8500 or so, but if you find yourself in a position where you can't downshift, you can't use very much power anyway.

With good porting comes a really broad powerband. Mine starts to wake up at 2k but the powerband goes from 4k to "there's a clutch spinning HOW FAST right next to my feet?" Which is generally around 10k for me. I've been higher than that but the tach stops there. I'm better off not knowing anyway. The synchro transmissions hate shifting more the higher you go so you're better off shifting at 8k or so anyway.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2016 08:54PM by Pete.
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Alex Staidle
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 14, 2016 10:32PM
Quote
mhooper
Alex, what lug pattern did you run? I'm assuming 8" was 6 lug to start.. Thats a lot of dif! They are super stout, even in pickups. And come from factory as low as 4.88. Did you fix the FB "binding" issue Josh mentioned in the rear?..

4x114.3. better wheel selection in the 15" variety. the axle has enough meat to lathe down and redrill for that pattern.



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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 16, 2016 08:05AM
Did you run 4x 114 up front or carry to spares?

Just watched some group B Rx7 on you tube... never seen so many spins in such a short time! I take these cars are prone to spinning..

The E30 will come back from insane angles without spinning.. it feels like it defies physics actually. I have yet to spin it on stage?
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 16, 2016 08:22AM
Quote
mhooper
Did you run 4x 114 up front or carry to spares?

Just watched some group B Rx7 on you tube... never seen so many spins in such a short time! I take these cars are prone to spinning..

The E30 will come back from insane angles without spinning.. it feels like it defies physics actually. I have yet to spin it on stage?

Vintage videos of real WRC cars and real WRC drivers?

Or new stuff with restored cars and "Gentlerman drivers"?

And, you know, there IS something to be said about the stability of some longer sedans type cars and the reverse: the instability and RADIDITY of rotation of short wheelbase cars.. Ya know?
Horses for courses?



John Vanlandingham
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 16, 2016 09:50AM
Millen... And Havas, but for the particular vids I saw looked like Havas wasn't having more success... Actually remember him coming through a particularly tight set of downhill corners at Cherokee... Full commitment, filled me with equal stoke as watching Seamus come through...

How bout rx8 limitations?... Heavier but they look to be cheap... More room, easy to cage, decent power if it is as broad.

Have to something for 15" wheels... I remember a pretty quick one at rwv ripping a wheel off... And the nitro circus global rally cross car... Wonder who got it... Hmmm
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 16, 2016 11:47AM
Quote
mhooper
Did you run 4x 114 up front or carry to spares?

Just watched some group B Rx7 on you tube... never seen so many spins in such a short time! I take these cars are prone to spinning..

Not really. What you easily see on YouTube is some amateur playing with his expensive toy at historic rallies.

It's hard to find video of actual period competition, but when you do, they're generally hauling ass and about as composed and controlled in driving as the other contemporary RWDs. Probably because they were about the same size and shape and suspension as the contemporaries. It's hard to screw up 95" wheelbase, struts, and solid axle.

I know there's plenty footage in I think '85 Rally GB and for sure there's some from that one year in Greece when everyone else broke so the quasi-privateers in the Mazda could elbow their way to a podium finish.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 11:53AM by Pete.
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Alex Staidle
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1978 Mazda Rx7



Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 16, 2016 04:34PM
Yea all the corners are 4x114.3.

Hard to compare the cars from video



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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (5)
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 17, 2016 12:50AM
Quote
Pete


I know there's plenty footage in I think '85 Rally GB and for sure there's some from that one year in Greece when everyone else broke so the quasi-privateers in the Mazda could elbow their way to a podium finish.

http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=1494&t=Rothmans-Acropolis-Rally-1985

No Ingvar Carlsson was no quasi privateer Offical Mazda team together with Those who were fast who broke were:
SS1 #2 flagflag Vatanen Ari - Harryman Terry icon Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 E2
Peugeot Talbot Sport B12
Steering
SS1 #3 flagflag Röhrl Walter - Geistdörfer Christian icon Audi Quattro Sport
Audi Sport B12

Top 10:
Quote

1. #5 flagflag Salonen Timo - Harjanne Seppo icon Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 E2
Peugeot Talbot Sport B12
10:20:19<--------------winning time TEN HOURS and 20 minutes..eye popping smiley
78.4

2. #1 flagflag Blomqvist Stig - Cederberg Björn icon Audi Quattro Sport
Audi Sport B12
10:24:34
+4:15
+4:15 77.9
0.31
3. #9 flagflag Carlsson Ingvar - Melander Benny icon Mazda RX-7
Mazda Rally Team Europe B12
11:08:25
+48:06

+43:51 72.8
3.56
4. #4 flagflag Mehta Shekhar - Mehta Yvonne icon Nissan 240 RS B12
11:10:46
+50:27
+2:21 72.5
3.73
5. #12 flagflag Al-Hajri Saeed - Spiller John icon Porsche 911 SC RS
Rothmans Porsche Rally Team B12
11:21:50
+1:01:31
+11:04 71.4
4.55
6. #14 flagflag Warmbold Achim - Biche icon Mazda RX-7
Mazda Rally Team Europe B12
11:25:16
+1:04:57
+3:26 71.0
4.81
7. #6 flagflag Kirkland Mike - Levitan Anton icon Nissan 240 RS B12
11:27:51
+1:07:32
+2:35 70.7
5.00
8. #8 flagflag Moschous Giorgos - Vazakas Dimitris icon Nissan 240 RS B12
11:45:52
+1:25:33
+18:01 68.9
6.33
9. #17 flagflag Wittmann sen. Franz - Ogrisek Max icon Volkswagen Golf GTi
Volkswagen Motorsport A7
12:07:05
+1:46:46
+21:13 66.9
7.90
10. #11 flagflag Stratissino - Sassalos Evangelos icon Nissan 240 RS B12
12:15:53
+1:55:34
+8:48 66.1
8.55
Suspension



Ingvar's stats:

http://ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=7250&t=Ingvar-Carlsson

1984:3 DNFs in 4 starts due to axle/diff..
Hmmmmmm

I bet Alex is happy he opted for the Toyota 8" unit..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 17, 2016 05:08AM
Don't wanna talk about DNFs due to axle/diff...

Speaking of axle and diff. Was looking at the mat.fi Celica builds. Probably the last competitive RWD/solid axle car and a car better at long endurance rallies. And a lot more power than the RX-7 too. (Allegedly ~450hp, vs. the Mazda's standard spec 300hp road racing engine) The rearend doesn't look like anything I ever saw in a Toyota... would that be the Ford unit?





Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2016 05:17AM by Pete.
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 17, 2016 05:34AM
Good stuff! Thank you..

Looks like atlas full floater like used in mk2?
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 17, 2016 09:47AM
Quote
Pete
Don't wanna talk about DNFs due to axle/diff...

Speaking of axle and diff. Was looking at the mat.fi Celica builds. Probably the last competitive RWD/solid axle car and a car better at long endurance rallies. And a lot more power than the RX-7 too. (Allegedly ~450hp, vs. the Mazda's standard spec 300hp road racing engine) The rearend doesn't look like anything I ever saw in a Toyota... would that be the Ford unit?


Probably some truck part...who knows?
But its huge when you see it compared to the size of parts you know.

(oh and in the actual time, speaking with the crews (drivers, mechanics, team personell were filling all the tables at the cafe I was grabbing sammich an hour before we started in 86) and later, more like 350hp...and I got to see those rip tires to death is oh maybe 6 miles out here...Maybe 7.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
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naterkane
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 23, 2016 11:33AM
@mhooper

You should totally buy my pair of rx7s. Just sayin'.

I'll have photos for you in a day or two.



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