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RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks

Posted by mhooper 
mekilljoydammit
Daniel DeRosia
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
February 29, 2016 07:15AM
From having thought about this very question (before deciding I'm not really crazy enough) if trying to fit into Group 2 I'd be tempted to do a Renesis with a standalone ECU and RX-8 trans in whatever shell - lot to be said for the idea of the Toyota axle and 2nd gen subframe in a 1st gen. Would get you pretty decent ratios (ignore 1st gear on the RX-8 trans) and pretty decent power, probably. Or if you email Mike Hurst and bring up the performance difference between a stock induction rotary and some of the other stuff that's legal, the powers that be might be talked into legalizing a streetport or something - he seemed amenable when I brought it up, but like I said, I decided I'm not crazy enough to build it.
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 07, 2016 09:45PM
That was the conclusion I was heading towards... Further Internet reading showed the trannies are weak and renesis up to o8 had issues.... Kinda stalled me out and I've gone full circle to duratecs.
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mekilljoydammit
Daniel DeRosia
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 08, 2016 08:39AM
Weak compared to the turbo transmissions, sure... behind the engine it was specced by the OEM to be behind, it really should be pretty much fine, and it's hard to argue against the ratios. And like I said, I have emails that suggest that a streetport non-Renesis might be OK with some talking beforehand, but I didn't push for it since I decided not to build it.

But, if you prefer to go the Duratec route, it's all good.
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 12, 2016 05:25AM
Looked into duratec eligibility for mazda contingency and its not there, at least gor tge evoboost... maybe the na duratecs would be close enough. Good to know about the porting possibly being legal.

We've narrowed it to rx8 or 1st gen rx7... So many rx8s available cheaply. It would be nice to have a newer car for a change and not deal with 30 year old car problems, but the suspension is a bit of a mystery with all those links in the rear, plus the hassle of trying to get 15"s on a car that came with 18s.
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Doivi Clarkinen
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 13, 2016 04:44AM
Quote
mhooper
Looked into duratec eligibility for mazda contingency and its not there, at least gor tge evoboost... maybe the na duratecs would be close enough. Good to know about the porting possibly being legal.

We've narrowed it to rx8 or 1st gen rx7... So many rx8s available cheaply. It would be nice to have a newer car for a change and not deal with 30 year old car problems, but the suspension is a bit of a mystery with all those links in the rear, plus the hassle of trying to get 15"s on a car that came with 18s.

Both of those choices are inferior to the 2nd gen RX7.
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mekilljoydammit
Daniel DeRosia
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 13, 2016 08:02PM
NA duratec could be fun. 2.5L Ford branded ones are cheap (Fusion, etc) and MX-5 manifold and trans bolts on. Aftermarket parts aren't incredibly expensive either; cams, rods, pistons, and valvesprings should be good for something over 200whp, more with ITBs.

On another note, in a tirekicking sense, is the 2nd gen rear suspension that much better than a proper 4-linked 1st gen?
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Pete
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 13, 2016 10:24PM
The only thing I have nice to say about that suspension is that it all fits under a low floorpan so there can be plenty of interior room.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 13, 2016 11:03PM
Quote
Pete
The only thing I have nice to say about that suspension is that it all fits under a low floorpan so there can be plenty of interior room.

Come on Pete, is it really BAD? Dave Hintz certainly did well with simple ol Dee Em Ess... Maybe a tad short in the rear but nuthin a short 2-3" extension to the existing tower wouldn't cure..
The annoying but having made a number of sets of struts for the front is the extremely short ears on the fronts and the proximity of the wheel and tire to the strut body---Notice that Mazda tapers the spring down to a very small OD...And since EVERYBODY just has to have 7" wheels up front that's a problem...Interior space...Well Dve Clark senor ran the car for Dave Hintz, and Hintze ist kein kleinchin maybe dave could tell us if dave was every grousing about the interior space...

If thats such a factor then maybe Mr Hooper should just step up to the obvious roomy car we know works so much better in the end any way


Plenty of room. Easy build. Kick ass easy motor. easy box, easy to upgrade cause there's ROOM

Closest thing we can get to an Escort, and better suited to our roads...

Build it like an Escort and it'll go like an Escort.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2016 08:46AM by john vanlandingham.
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Doivi Clarkinen
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 14, 2016 04:52AM
Quote
mekilljoydammit

On another note, in a tirekicking sense, is the 2nd gen rear suspension that much better than a proper 4-linked 1st gen?

No, but that wasn't the question. Is it better than the stock 1st gen rear suspension? Yes, but it has it's own issues. There's a lot of camber change so you wear rear tires funny. Diff mounts break all the time, even the heavy duty Mazda Comp ones. Now. a 2nd gen with a 5 linked live axle? That would be interesting.
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reecers
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 14, 2016 03:29PM
get a hold of mike halley on facebook, he has 3 rx7 rally cars right now



I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 17, 2016 08:00PM
If I did 1st gen it wouldn't hit the stages til it had big dif and 4 link boxes, 2nd gen front cross member, 13b, possibly renesis if the stock intake rule isn't waved...

Dolvi You think 2nd gen quicker over that setup? 2nd gen would good ratio dif, decent suspension , 200 ish hp, stock 5 speed

Rx8 woulda been early model with late model 4.88 dif, decent suspension with upgraded suspension links, stock transit rx7 5 speed, pretty much stock engine.

Those builds for rx8 and 1st gen actually came to about the same price.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
March 28, 2016 12:10PM
Quote
mhooper
If I did 1st gen it wouldn't hit the stages til it had big dif and 4 link boxes, 2nd gen front cross member, 13b, possibly renesis if the stock intake rule isn't waved...

Holy crap.



Just got this via UPS. Aluminum pumpkin for the 9". This thing weighs NOTHING.

This is gonna be rad.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
June 16, 2016 11:13AM
Quote
dolvi

Quote
mekilljoydammit

On another note, in a tirekicking sense, is the 2nd gen rear suspension that much better than a proper 4-linked 1st gen?

No, but that wasn't the question. Is it better than the stock 1st gen rear suspension? Yes, but it has it's own issues. There's a lot of camber change so you wear rear tires funny. Diff mounts break all the time, even the heavy duty Mazda Comp ones. Now. a 2nd gen with a 5 linked live axle? That would be interesting.

Kinda is the question, but actually to be more specific 1st gen with proper 4link/FC fnt subframe vs FC car. Unless I am missing it you best of both worlds this way.
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
September 02, 2016 05:17AM
Soooo after listening to all the input and looking at the cars we have decided on a first gen rx7 with rear 4 link modeled after the escorts and front cross member/suspension from FC.

Picked up clean white 84 shell as well as a 88 fc for the front end bits and wheels...

On the hunt for a rear dif now. Leaning towards 90-92 4cyl 4wd that we can put a MA70 dif in.... I'm still concerned about the weight if this dif. Looks like 85 and older had smaller tubes and were lighter, but from Internet... Are a little narrow. The 90-92 should? Be close to right width but not have the ABS housing... Not sure when abs came to play.... Need to figure that out...

For engine...def want to stay gr2 so no porting. Leaning towards stock s5 13b complete drivetrain, but have not ruled out 2nd gen renesis if I can find easy engine management.

For trans considering rx8 6 speed because unlike most 6 speeds I've sen it looks like 6od is actually shorter than the OD in the 5 speed? So 2-6 and a 5.xx dif ought to be affordable and good on stage... Not sure here, need to do more research and try and find done dyno charts for stock 13b.

Okie! Thanks for all the input everybody!!! Here we go:-)
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mhooper
Michael Hooper
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Re: RX7 for rally car... 2nd gen me thinks
September 02, 2016 05:22AM
Surprisingly clean shell.. Lotsa stuff missing but 99% of what's gone I wasn't going to use anyways... Has everything I need from the first gen except bumper/filler and sunroof panel...
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