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About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...

Posted by biggreen96 
biggreen96
Chris Caylor
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About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 08, 2016 11:35PM
Upper perch threads are packed with dirt bad this time. I can only work it back and for about 1cm before it gets stuck. Been at it for over an hour.
This happens every time I take them off to clean but this guy is stuuuck. Advice?
John if you have extras you can sell me I'm cutting this bastard off!



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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 12:15AM
Chris I'll write you a big run down in the morning.. Soapy water and propane and patience and mainly trying to go down where its clean...down and spary and heat and down again, more water and then heat and PB Blaster..



John Vanlandingham
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 12:51AM
If it's all dried up dust stuff, I've had good luck with turning the perch back and forth rapidly a few degrees at a time, turning the perch back and forth more as it loosens up. This agitated the small particles and they can fall out and clear up the threads. This has to be done dry though. Moisture will just hold the grit in if you try it that way.
YMMV.
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biggreen96
Chris Caylor
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 02:46AM
That is the method I used on the others, and it definitely works. But this one... Oh my.

My dad dropped in while I was cursing this thing and said "maybe a bead of caulk around the top and bottom next time..." which seems like a very good idea to keep dust and dirt out. Or perhaps plastidip, isn't that stuff supposed to peel off nicely?



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john vanlandingham
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 08:00AM
Quote
biggreen96
That is the method I used on the others, and it definitely works. But this one... Oh my.

My dad dropped in while I was cursing this thing and said "maybe a bead of caulk around the top and bottom next time..." which seems like a very good idea to keep dust and dirt out. Or perhaps plastidip, isn't that stuff supposed to peel off nicely?

Which that? That is singular. You got advice from one young and very inexperienced guy who is always conventional who has unflagging , almost supernatural self-confidence, and from me who maybe has dealt with just a few more of these..

And the advice was, as almost always with young and very inexperienced guys, especially those who think their every thought is I dunno, blessed or something, conflicting.

THAT is .....?

Propane? Map gas? downward, ever downward? How big of a lever you putting on it?



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reecers
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 08:58AM
bigger hammer



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Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI
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john vanlandingham
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 09:23AM
Quote
reecers
bigger hammer

I use a hard nylon one, unit upside down so anything dislodged can fall down.
And a 2 foot pipe wrench
Propane, too...

And hot water again to wash out anything I can---



John Vanlandingham
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 10:40AM
Oddly enough, me and a few others were just talking about this problem yesterday.

The bead of silicone in top is a great way to prevent his from happening. Once that thing gets removed, I'd recommend moving to a shorter spring perch that doesn't funnel grit into the small space between the ID of the sleeve and the threads.
If you have two springs, then a simple nylon slider will work. You can also use a section of nylon or PVC to guide the springs back onto the perch. Look at what off-readers, circle track racers, and any modern rally suspension maker uses for spring guides and seats... All nylon sleeves and shorter seats for a reason...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 11:37AM by Robert Culbertson.
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biggreen96
Chris Caylor
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Location: Moscow ID/Pullman WA
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Old Legacy- not very stock.



Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 11:54AM
On the others the dry method has worked, up side down in the vise, working the collar back and forth up towards the clean threads near the bottom of the shock body.

I'll hit it with heat and water and a bigger lever. But I need to know you have a replacement collar before I break out the 2 foot pipe wrench and really fuck this things world.



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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 12:00PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
The bead of silicone in top is a great way to prevent his from happening. Once that thing gets removed, I'd recommend moving to a shorter spring perch that doesn't funnel grit into the small space between the ID of the sleeve and the threads. You can use a section of nylon or PVC to guide the springs back onto the perch. Look at what off-readers, circle track racers, and any modern rally suspension maker uses for spring guides and seats... All nylon sleeves abd shorter seats for a reason...

Yeah Culbertson, look at any modern stuff on high buck stuff that gets replaced constantly...

You really need to learn one day that your extreme lack of experience paying for things yourself leads you constantly astray

And if you had any experience enough to go out advising people like you do constantly, then you'd know that even those short lower seats on so many of the popular $5-8k set ups jam up just as frequently. You really are the epitome of a 20 something who thinks all kinds of things with such certainty but with such limited experience that its kind of annoying to see you give out such bad advice all the time.

Top anybody else, who wants to know: we have to use fairly fine thread and good tolerances to get enough thread engagement ---note that other manufacturers who presumably know more than Culbertson and more than I do use the exact same thread on both 40 and 41mm and 50mm stuff (DMS and Bilstein)... They use short little platforms primarily to SAVE MONEY.. Money is something Culbertson has never in my experience given any thought to because he is not racing and trying to pay for stuff himself...
The short ones seize and jam just as often---which he would know if he had been around long enough to have worked on or fought with them...

I have made some tests with the extended seats I supply---which are done "inspired by mid/late 90s works Ford stuff---with a groove machined up top.. I made square grooves and half round grooves and tired square form and round O rings to try and keep dirt out because i know 98% of you guys are not mechanics, and or have very limited experience and resources...

Both types of O rings created way way excessive drag and made movement of the seat ON A NEW CLEAN TUBE excessively hard to do..Exhausting really...so no go.

John Reed in Portland discussed this constant problem on EVERYTHING and we came up with the idea of king-sized heat shrink sleeve over the top and the tube..Seemed to work for him..

But this is the inter-net where non-racers are all experts and 3 rallies makes you a veteran..
Sheesh.

Chris..at this point I don't what to suggest...I can only say what worked for me on all but 3-4 seats--which were used for 3-4 years and NEVER cleaned at all...Heat, water, oil heat, and down movement as far down as possible to clean out as much as possible then UP and it it jams, more wash, go down and more wash then up with PB and heat... Worked on my 40s/50s. DMS 40s and 50s, seized Proflex and seized RSSP...



John Vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 12:02PM
Quote
biggreen96
On the others the dry method has worked, up side down in the vise, working the collar back and forth up towards the clean threads near the bottom of the shock body.

I'll hit it with heat and water and a bigger lever. But I need to know you have a replacement collar before I break out the 2 foot pipe wrench and really fuck this things world.

Sure of course I do. Let me know if you succeed or not and I can get you one toute suite.



John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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biggreen96
Chris Caylor
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 12:11PM
Cool, thanks.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 01:01PM
Quote
biggreen96
Cool, thanks.

You haz da phone numbah, right?



John Vanlandingham
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 01:19PM
I have 2 seized RS&SPs (rears seem to seize, fronts never been a problem). Some people havw suggested graphite lube rather than liquid lube to prevent collecting so much grit but I find that hard to believe as the mud is going to get in there with graphite too.

I have done the taped-threads and caulk things but the large heat-shrink tubing might be the best plan



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ElectroTech
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Re: About to lose my shit. Spring perch woes...
February 09, 2016 10:54PM
I'd suggest using the removed perch as a template to make a tool that engages all the notches and then welding an air hammer chisel to said tool, it will come off like butter. Vibration is your friend. I haven't taken thousands of these specific things apart but I come from the land of salt and rust where the blue flamed wrench is used as a first option. Pipe wrench is likely to squat the perch collar and you are fubar then.



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