E36 M42 Build

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Da_Elderly
On a slightly different note, what type of RA license (regional or national) is need for the 100aw two day event? This will most likely be my only event of the year.

Regional. I might be there also. I'll be there crewing if not driving, can help you out if you make it!

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Grant Hughes

Thanks thats what I needed to know! Ill be damned if I dont make it... anywho cant wait to meet up! ha

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Be excellent to each other

Okay...update time:
Uhh Im trying to recall what I got done in the mean since I last updated. I ordered a ton of parts from rock auto in hopes to do a refresh on brakes and replace the current CV axles that have torn boots. So that's what I did...I refreshed the rear brake pads, e-brake shoes, and rotors. That should be good for a while. When changing the axles, the driver side was text book as in everything went smoothly. But this build wouldn't be what it is today if there aren't any problems. The passenger side cv unbolted from the diff no problem, but I could not, repeat COULD NOT remove the axle from the hub!!! I tried everything except heat in hopes to save the hub. The car was just dropped off at the cage person guy to install pipes, so ill fiddle with that problem when I get the car back. Its a royal pain, sledge hammer (4lb and 16lb), air hammer, PB blaster, pully puller, love, hate, all but heat. dunno. anyways, time for pics!

Test fitting the seats prior to cage install

New pads/rotor

1 new axle installed, 1 old axle stuck

trying to get the axle out or at least the hub broke free.

Custom Cages roll cage packaged. hope all is there

Next images are more for John Vanlandinghamburgvurpamanwholivesinwashingtonwithairplanesyouhearoverthephone




had to take the doors off the car for cage install, along with seats inside and harnesses.


Using a come-along-now-we-got-all-day-but-not-enough-people tool

Loaded and off to drop the car off for a month.

Towing setup


Ill post some cage pictures when I receive updates. Once I get the car back, Its a race to paint the inside so nothing rust like crazy. After that its time to organize the inside and prep it with safety junk. I also need to make a skid plate brace and mount that. Rally Ready in Austin,Tx has a small rally sprint im shooting to use as a shake down. Hope I make it.

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Be excellent to each other

Quote
Da_Elderly
Okay...update time:
Uhh Im trying to recall what I got done in the mean since I last updated. I ordered a ton of parts from rock auto in hopes to do a refresh on brakes and replace the current CV axles that have torn boots. So that's what I did...I refreshed the rear brake pads, e-brake shoes, and rotors. That should be good for a while. When changing the axles, the driver side was text book as in everything went smoothly. But this build wouldn't be what it is today if there aren't any problems. The passenger side cv unbolted from the diff no problem, but I could not, repeat COULD NOT remove the axle from the hub!!! I tried everything except heat in hopes to save the hub. The car was just dropped off at the cage person guy to install pipes, so ill fiddle with that problem when I get the car back. Its a royal pain, sledge hammer (4lb and 16lb), air hammer, PB blaster, pully puller, love, hate, all but heat. dunno. anyways, time for pics!
Ill post some cage pictures when I receive updates. Once I get the car back, Its a race to paint the inside so nothing rust like crazy. After that its time to organize the inside and prep it with safety junk. I also need to make a skid plate brace and mount that. Rally Ready in Austin,Tx has a small rally sprint im shooting to use as a shake down. Hope I make it.

We're the CVs problematic our just replacing for fun?
I prefer OEMPartsHaus or FCP Euro for parts, at least I know brand and the owners. FCP has a decent racer discount program.
Rotors, Zimmerman are best regarded replacement.
Pads, call me when you are ready for some real pads, Porterfield or Ferodo.

I've had to pull the entire trailing arm off and use a press to get the half shaft out before. They don't seem to ever fail so they never get replaced.
Did I already post the links to the spring Dave Hintz ended up using on his car? John's Bilstein shock (probably same as was used in Kern's car if you are going to do a turret.

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Grant Hughes



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2016 02:55PM by NoCoast.

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NoCoast


We're the CVs problematic our just replacing for fun?
I prefer OEMPartsHaus or FCP Euro for parts, at least I know brand and the owners. FCP has a decent racer discount program.
Rotors, Zimmerman are best regarded replacement.
Pads, call me when you are ready for some real pads, Porterfield or Ferodo.

All 4 CV boots are torn. They will fail quickly, especially on dirt. Ill look into racer discount programs, that could help out some. I am going with EBC Yellowstuff brake pads for the front. I just put basic pads on the rear. The caliper and pads are so small its not worth performance pads back their until I upgrade the brake system down the road.

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Be excellent to each other

Quote
Da_Elderly
All 4 CV boots are torn. They will fail quickly, especially on dirt. Ill look into racer discount programs, that could help out some. I am going with EBC Yellowstuff brake pads for the front. I just put basic pads on the rear. The caliper and pads are so small its not worth performance pads back their until I upgrade the brake system down the road.

EBC are worthless in my experience, given that is only crewing for a guy who was capable of top five stage times in a worthless Eclipse and wearing through a new pad in a single leg of the rally.
The calipers with good pads (like Porterfields R4s) are great performers, Dave Kern and myself have had success with that setup. There are only two "upgrades" worth considering to the caliper/rotor setup and that is either the Alcon kit from Europe or the AP Racing kit we are developing, slowly since at ~$1600 per corner I have a feeling I will be the only customer for the BMW kit. There is nothing worth considering otherwise. Wilwood or any other aftermarket budget option is not an upgrade over the stock stuff.
Rear pads are as or more important than front pads. If you are not going to upgrade to a adjustable dual bias pedal box kit then you will be controlling your bias with pads. By using a good pad up front and the crappy pad in the rear you will have way more front brake bias and you will induce more understeer. The bias with R4s front and rear is decent and a great starting point and decent for starting out.
I had a failing brake booster that eventually led to a crash and an upgrade to a dual master pedal box setup (which we sell a bolt in kit for) which allowed me to dial in even more rear bias, which I personally prefer. But I did the first handful of events and road racing with nothing more than the R4 pads, Zimmerman rotors, braided lines, and some good quality fluid.

If those are the factory half shafts DO NOT send them back for a core exchange. Have them rebuilt by a reputable shop (CVJ in Denver if you can't find anything out there) and keep them as spares, or better yet, put them back in the car and put the Rock Auto ones as spares.

Have you rebuilt or upgraded your shifter yet? Pretty easy and cheap. Two options to consider there. The AKG shifter is the one that most people like (Bradenburg, Kern, Yuvalli) but was a little steep for my "drive a cheap car fast" mentality. I got a Z3 short shifter and rebuild kit coupled with the AKG delrin bushings which is about 1/3 of the cost and is a factory item. I think that was from FCP Euro also.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast

Quote
Da_Elderly
All 4 CV boots are torn. They will fail quickly, especially on dirt. Ill look into racer discount programs, that could help out some. I am going with EBC Yellowstuff brake pads for the front. I just put basic pads on the rear. The caliper and pads are so small its not worth performance pads back their until I upgrade the brake system down the road.

EBC are worthless in my experience, given that is only crewing for a guy who was capable of top five stage times in a worthless Eclipse and wearing through a new pad in a single leg of the rally.
The calipers with good pads (like Porterfields R4s) are great performers, Dave Kern and myself have had success with that setup. There are only two "upgrades" worth considering to the caliper/rotor setup and that is either the Alcon kit from Europe or the AP Racing kit we are developing, slowly since at ~$1600 per corner I have a feeling I will be the only customer for the BMW kit. There is nothing worth considering otherwise. Wilwood or any other aftermarket budget option is not an upgrade over the stock stuff.
Rear pads are as or more important than front pads. If you are not going to upgrade to a adjustable dual bias pedal box kit then you will be controlling your bias with pads. By using a good pad up front and the crappy pad in the rear you will have way more front brake bias and you will induce more understeer. The bias with R4s front and rear is decent and a great starting point and decent for starting out.
I had a failing brake booster that eventually led to a crash and an upgrade to a dual master pedal box setup (which we sell a bolt in kit for) which allowed me to dial in even more rear bias, which I personally prefer. But I did the first handful of events and road racing with nothing more than the R4 pads, Zimmerman rotors, braided lines, and some good quality fluid.

If those are the factory half shafts DO NOT send them back for a core exchange. Have them rebuilt by a reputable shop (CVJ in Denver if you can't find anything out there) and keep them as spares, or better yet, put them back in the car and put the Rock Auto ones as spares.

Have you rebuilt or upgraded your shifter yet? Pretty easy and cheap. Two options to consider there. The AKG shifter is the one that most people like (Bradenburg, Kern, Yuvalli) but was a little steep for my "drive a cheap car fast" mentality. I got a Z3 short shifter and rebuild kit coupled with the AKG delrin bushings which is about 1/3 of the cost and is a factory item. I think that was from FCP Euro also.

Well since I already have the EBC pads, Ill use them. I probably will get better pads for the rear later on. I do need to pump new dot 4 fluid through all the calipers since you mentioned it. Now as for the half shafts, I have no idea what is factory or not. This 21yo car has no documented history that I am aware of. At $40 for a complete cv axle, how much am I really saving sending in the used (shipping) axles and having them serviced, then shipped back? its got to be at least $40 or more. I put a shorter throw shift level on a year ago since the original was like rowing a boat, haha. Next thing I am purchasing is paint for the bare roll cage and a skid plate. Now if you want to sell me a skid plate (6061 1/4" with a slight bend upwards at the front) and mounting bracket for around the $200 range, Im all ears....else im making my own once the car gets back.

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Be excellent to each other

Quote
Da_Elderly
This 21yo car has no documented history that I am aware of. At $40 for a complete cv axle, how much am I really saving sending in the used (shipping) axles and having them serviced, then shipped back? its got to be at least $40 or more. I put a shorter throw shift level on a year ago since the original was like rowing a boat, haha. Next thing I am purchasing is paint for the bare roll cage and a skid plate. Now if you want to sell me a skid plate (6061 1/4" with a slight bend upwards at the front) and mounting bracket for around the $200 range, Im all ears....else im making my own once the car gets back.

It is the manufacturing difference between China and Germany that is key here. Sure they might only be $40 but they might also last only a few months. I'll be honest though, I have no clue if it matters with BMW parts, but my experience with Subaru stuff has shown that the Chinese halfshafts do not compare with the OEM ones. I've yet to have any problem with a half shaft the only issue I've had in the entire rear of the car was a wheel bearing after our first 8 hours of road course racing (top 3 pace most of the race, leading at times).
You obviously haven't priced out your skidplate materials yet. I won't get into any discussion regarding thickness or material choice other than point out that Primitive Racing has probably sold skidplates to nearly every Subaru in the nation and their rally plate is a 5052 3/16" plate. We don't rally on jeep roads anymore, a 1/4" 6061 is weight and added expense.

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Grant Hughes

I have priced things out...and I can get a 1/4" 6061 plate for 24"x30" for $158.40 + some square tubing should bring the total around $170 before shipping.
Online metal warehouse

Less thick and lower grade Al is like 50 bucks cheaper haha. Idk why everybody charges so damn much.

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Be excellent to each other

Quote
Da_Elderly
I have priced things out...and I can get a 1/4" 6061 plate for 24"x30" for $158.40 + some square tubing should bring the total around $170 before shipping.
Online metal warehouse

Less thick and lower grade Al is like 50 bucks cheaper haha. Idk why everybody charges so damn much.

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http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/why-things-cost-money
Some items that required comparatively little effort (let’s say, suddenly fashionable hats) in fact command higher prices than the fruit of enormous labor (for instance, brilliant but difficult novels). To compare apples with apples, a cheaply made but well-written comedy like the brilliant Office Space may outsell a hugely expensive, carefully researched historical drama like Heaven’s Gate. While those of us on the outside may detect an apparent injustice here, in fact such outcomes are merely the fruit of adults making their own decisions about which products they really want.

In other words, economic value is subjective — it’s determined by each of us, as free and morally responsible subjects.
The most important part of understanding how prices work is the idea of “marginal utility.”

You make your way to the nearest tavern. That first glass of Basil Hayden bourbon you bring to your lips will taste like the nectar of the gods. The second will make less of an impression, and if you unwisely kept drinking for several hours, at some point the prospect of one more glass will make your stomach turn. The utility of that first glass of bourbon was much higher to you than the second or the seventh. In theory, you might have been willing to pay $15 for the first shot, but only $5 for the last one.

However, no businessman (mercifully) can read your mind and shift the prices to match exactly what you’re willing to pay each time. Instead, he must set it low enough to match the last drink you’re willing to buy, when your craving for a drink is at its margin, or limit. So the price of any product is set by the marginal utility felt by the consumer — the amount they’re willing to pay for that very last drink.

Our shipping size on the BMW skidplate is 46x30x5 so a bit bigger than yours.
We price them as cheaply as we are willing to make them and what I think is a good value to the privateer rallyist, usually based on asking myself what I would have been willing to pay. Mostly I've sold them to other shops that have a concept of the labor involved and realize that it actually saves them money compared to building it themselves.
It's like roll cages. People don't understand why they cost so much money and rally cages are about half the price of what they should be if the laborers were paid a real competitive wage. Shops that actively and accurately track the labor hours always charge $6k and up for a roll cage but people balk at a $3k rally cage.

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Grant Hughes

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You obviously haven't priced out your skidplate materials yet. I won't get into any discussion regarding thickness or material choice other than point out that Primitive Racing has probably sold skidplates to nearly every Subaru in the nation and their rally plate is a 5052 3/16" plate. We don't rally on jeep roads anymore, a 1/4" 6061 is weight and added expense.

Grant, we cracked an oilpan on Dave Hintz's M3 with a 1/4" 6061 T6 skidplate a couple years ago. Big hit, obviously. A little modification in the mounting helped prevent future issues but I still had to straighten out a big bow in the skidplate last year by parking my truck on it and heating it up with a torch. I wouldn't use anything less than 6061 for a skidplate myself.

I wrapped the front of mine around a boulder last year but was able to bend it back with our hydraulic press. Oil pan was okay, the boulder was a mini cooler size.
Spacing away from the pan is the hard part in most cars, especially with how low the BMW pan is. Kern's car has some angle welded on the cross member to hold plate further away from the oil pan.
The unanswerable question is "would the only time you broke an oil pan have been that impact had you been on a 3/16" 5052 plate?"

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
The unanswerable question is "would the only time you broke an oil pan have been that impact had you been on a 3/16" 5052 plate?"

Next time on...Rally Anarchy *commercial starts*

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Be excellent to each other

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NoCoast
I wrapped the front of mine around a boulder last year but was able to bend it back with our hydraulic press. Oil pan was okay, the boulder was a mini cooler size.
Spacing away from the pan is the hard part in most cars, especially with how low the BMW pan is. Kern's car has some angle welded on the cross member to hold plate further away from the oil pan.
The unanswerable question is "would the only time you broke an oil pan have been that impact had you been on a 3/16" 5052 plate?"

The answer is yes, because I wouldn't be dumb enough to risk breaking another oilpan with an inferior skidplate. We did weld a bar on the bottom of the crossmember after that to give it more space.

I have used 3/16" on lighter cars like Andrew Sutherland's Honda.

cage update:







On track for 100aw still.

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Be excellent to each other