Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

E36 M42 Build

Posted by Garrett Griffith 
Da_Elderly
Garrett Griffith
Godlike Moderator
Location: Dallas, Tx
Join Date: 01/20/2016
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 47

Rally Car:
BMW E36 318i


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 12:50PM
John has only sent me the fronts, they are 225 springs 12"



Be excellent to each other
Please Login or Register to post a reply
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Infallible Moderator
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 6,740

Rally Car:
Merkur



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 04:00PM
Interesting.
For fun, I went back to the old Sierra manuals.
RAC was only one without some progressive/dual rate spring in front it seems.
There they used 450 in lbs in front.
250-650 progressive in rear, group N so that was stock location.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
Please Login or Register to post a reply
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Infallible Moderator
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 6,740

Rally Car:
Merkur



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 04:21PM
My mind has really been messed with thinking of ways to play with BMW rear suspension.
A raised spring seat and secondary spring in stock location that is a few inches OFF the arm at ride height and only comes into play in the last few inches of travel.
Keeping springs in stock location but using a dual spring setup to have a stiff spring for the end of travel but nice and soft through most of the travel. Like a 300/300 stack where you end with 150 in lbs through 75% of travel before one of the springs is blocked and you go to the 300 in lb rate helping prevent bottoming and possible damage to the shock mount.
Or there's also the fun hydraulic bump stop only in the stock spring seat. Again, same goal, take some of the load off the rear shock mount.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
Please Login or Register to post a reply
lelikmed
Alex Kuklov
Elite Moderator
Location: Warwick NY
Join Date: 01/02/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 63

Rally Car:
2000 RS


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 06:49PM
Quote
NoCoast
Interesting.
For fun, I went back to the old Sierra manuals.
RAC was only one without some progressive/dual rate spring in front it seems.
There they used 450 in lbs in front.
250-650 progressive in rear, group N so that was stock location.

Do you have a PDF for Sierra GrN or GrA RWD?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
Mod Moderator
Location: Portland , Or
Join Date: 08/15/2010
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 1,208

Rally Car:
MK2 VW GTI



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 07:00PM
Quote
lelikmed
Quote
NoCoast
Interesting.
For fun, I went back to the old Sierra manuals.
RAC was only one without some progressive/dual rate spring in front it seems.
There they used 450 in lbs in front.
250-650 progressive in rear, group N so that was stock location.

Do you have a PDF for Sierra GrN or GrA RWD?

From the other thread: http://www.doublegmotorsport.com/technical/sierra/
Please Login or Register to post a reply
lelikmed
Alex Kuklov
Elite Moderator
Location: Warwick NY
Join Date: 01/02/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 63

Rally Car:
2000 RS


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 07:26PM
considering all options her for my own Compact build
This thing is getting big in Europe

Besides JV , there are other options out there :
DMS - Australians don't have BMW, so not sure if they have a clue
Reigers ($9000) that says it all...
Shit from GChina.
Shit from Netherlands
Shit from Russia
Even Bilstein own rally shocks:
In their German Katalog I found :

E36 M3 Rally dampers Front
Bilstein 35-233596 L 280 compress/150 rebound
Bilstein 35-233602 R

E30 M3 Rally damper Rear
Rear: 24-233637 260/120
Fitting side: rear axle
Shock Absorber Type: Gas pressure
Shock Absorber System: Single pipe
Shock Absorber Mounting Type: Bottom eye
Shock Absorber Mounting Type: Top pin
Characteristics: 260/120
Length [mm]: 533
Characteristics: 260/120

Rear: 24-000642 200/200
Internal Design: Monotube
Series: Motorsports
Lower Mount Type: Eye 12mm
Title: Bilstein Shock Absorbers
Upper Mount Type: Stem
Collapsed Length: 13.15 in / 334 mm
Extended Length: 19.19 in / 487.5 mm

Best option out there is to convert to Escort Gr4 and use Reigers which you can buy used since everyone is using Escorts.
Not entirely sure what does it entails to convert it to Escort. Rear shock I think is the same to use 12mm bolt on the bottom. On top It need 10cm turret since Escort Reigers shocks are made longer by almost 8 cm.
Front need a different knuckle like Zubaru style.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 08:29PM
Quote
lelikmed
considering all options her for my own Compact build
This thing is getting big in Europe

Besides JV , there are other options out there :
DMS - Australians don't have BMW, so not sure if they have a clue
Reigers ($9000) that says it all...
Shit from GChina.
Shit from Netherlands
Shit from Russia
Even Bilstein own rally shocks:
In their German Katalog I found :

E36 M3 Rally dampers Front
Bilstein 35-233596 L 280 compress/150 rebound
Bilstein 35-233602 R

E30 M3 Rally damper Rear
Rear: 24-233637 260/120
Fitting side: rear axle
Shock Absorber Type: Gas pressure
Shock Absorber System: Single pipe
Shock Absorber Mounting Type: Bottom eye
Shock Absorber Mounting Type: Top pin
Characteristics: 260/120
Length [mm]: 533
Characteristics: 260/120

Rear: 24-000642 200/200
Internal Design: Monotube
Series: Motorsports
Lower Mount Type: Eye 12mm
Title: Bilstein Shock Absorbers
Upper Mount Type: Stem
Collapsed Length: 13.15 in / 334 mm
Extended Length: 19.19 in / 487.5 mm

Best option out there is to convert to Escort Gr4 and use Reigers which you can buy used since everyone is using Escorts.
Not entirely sure what does it entails to convert it to Escort. Rear shock I think is the same to use 12mm bolt on the bottom. On top It need 10cm turret since Escort Reigers shocks are made longer by almost 8 cm.
Front need a different knuckle like Zubaru style.

Tavarich, you need to understand that math is your friend...what makes one thing good and another bad comes down to a lot of things that cab be measured..

Example:
Quote

Rear: 24-000642 200/200
Internal Design: Monotube
Series: Motorsports
Lower Mount Type: Eye 12mm
Title: Bilstein Shock Absorbers
Upper Mount Type: Stem
Collapsed Length: 13.15 in / 334 mm
Extended Length: 19.19 in / 487.5 mm

That's 153,5mm travel....

That is not what anybody wants.. I belive Kerns car he got 211mm travel...57,3mm more travel.
Front the guy here in this thread gor 223mm front travel...

That is a lot of travel.. Thats 53mm more than some remote reservoir Proflex things I had here for a Subie..

I know that everybody that has a keyboard is an instant suspension expert...but personally I would not bet my money on anybody individual here having enough experience to go an acceptable job of selecting spring and damper rates.

Especially any of the guys who have either never driven a rally car or only done 3 events ever in their lives...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
lelikmed
Alex Kuklov
Elite Moderator
Location: Warwick NY
Join Date: 01/02/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 63

Rally Car:
2000 RS


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 08:50PM
Tavarich, you need to understand that math is your friend...what makes one thing good and another bad comes down to a lot of things that cab be measured..

Example:
Quote

Rear: 24-000642 200/200
Internal Design: Monotube
Series: Motorsports
Lower Mount Type: Eye 12mm
Title: Bilstein Shock Absorbers
Upper Mount Type: Stem
Collapsed Length: 13.15 in / 334 mm
Extended Length: 19.19 in / 487.5 mm

That's 153,5mm travel....

That is not what anybody wants.. I belive Kerns car he got 211mm travel...57,3mm more travel.
Front the guy here in this thread gor 223mm front travel...

That is a lot of travel.. Thats 53mm more than some remote reservoir Proflex things I had here for a Subie..

I know that everybody that has a keyboard is an instant suspension expert...but personally I would not bet my money on anybody individual here having enough experience to go an acceptable job of selecting spring and damper rates.

Especially any of the guys who have either never driven a rally car or only done 3 events ever in their lives...[/quote]


Travel on the rear should be 533-334=199mm almost 20cm. Ok
What do you use for your shocks?
What is your compression rebound parameters?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Infallible Moderator
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 6,740

Rally Car:
Merkur



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 05, 2016 10:34PM
We are developing a DMS kit. Kinda special in that it requires a few parts we machine in house. We are building prototype top mount tomorrow, then we can start assessing camber and clearances for fronts. Goal is under $4k complete retail.
Lots of spring options in order. We have the standard and Compact so will have a rear setup for both. Already have the turrets designed and built first one for the Compact, lots of options on Compact rear with a turret and stock location spring or coilover.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
Mod Moderator
Location: Portland , Or
Join Date: 08/15/2010
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 1,208

Rally Car:
MK2 VW GTI



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 06, 2016 12:11AM
Your Reiger price seems about double what it should be. Club sport Reigers are around $3k usd for a set, $3800 when you go double adjustable. At least they are for an Xratty....
Please Login or Register to post a reply
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Infallible Moderator
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 6,740

Rally Car:
Merkur



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 06, 2016 12:34AM
Where?
The only number I've heard, and this has been consistent was $6500. There was a Finn site I found a "budget" version for around 3500eu.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
Mod Moderator
Location: Portland , Or
Join Date: 08/15/2010
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 1,208

Rally Car:
MK2 VW GTI



Re: E36 M42 Build
December 06, 2016 12:35AM
Quote
NoCoast
Where?
The only number I've heard, and this has been consistent was $6500. There was a Finn site I found a "budget" version for around 3500eu.
Direct from Reiger. Talk with Bart.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Da_Elderly
Garrett Griffith
Godlike Moderator
Location: Dallas, Tx
Join Date: 01/20/2016
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 47

Rally Car:
BMW E36 318i


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 06, 2016 12:36AM
Good gosh all mighty, 6.5k? thats almost my entire build cost!!



Be excellent to each other
Please Login or Register to post a reply
lelikmed
Alex Kuklov
Elite Moderator
Location: Warwick NY
Join Date: 01/02/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 63

Rally Car:
2000 RS


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 06, 2016 12:03PM
3.5k for Reiger rally shocks- ? I will talk to them.
The typical cost for RWD is about 9k for fully adjustable after currency conversion shippping cost and custom tax. Or 12.5k for 4wd.
In fact that is what I bought , but honestly they set up from factory to your car so perfectly that don't need to adjust anything.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
lelikmed
Alex Kuklov
Elite Moderator
Location: Warwick NY
Join Date: 01/02/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 63

Rally Car:
2000 RS


Re: E36 M42 Build
December 06, 2016 12:08PM
Intersting.
How high is the rear turret ?
What is the lengh of the rear shock are you getting. ? Its 533mm on the standart compact. With turrets in place you should be looking for additional 100mm. What shock are you using to get that lenght. ?


Quote
NoCoast
We are developing a DMS kit. Kinda special in that it requires a few parts we machine in house. We are building prototype top mount tomorrow, then we can start assessing camber and clearances for fronts. Goal is under $4k complete retail.
Lots of spring options in order. We have the standard and Compact so will have a rear setup for both. Already have the turrets designed and built first one for the Compact, lots of options on Compact rear with a turret and stock location spring or coilover.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login