Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

Pete; I honestly do not feel comfortable on re-treads. No matter what the customer reviews are. No matter what others' personal experience may be. The entire idea behind using a re-tread for competition purposes just un-nerves me. When I started researching tires, I found that both Black Rocket and the Indy series are re-treads. The only reason I will be using the Indy F tires on the 17" wheels for rally sprint is becasue they are really the only option for 17" size.
Both the DMack and Michelin tires I have are solid core tires. Not re-treads. That makes me much more comfortable. I have years of tire experience, and feel comfortable after inspecting all tires I bought that they are all in very good condition, and were stored properly. Not a single tire has any sign of dry rot, and they are all mounted and aired up to 50 psi for storage.
Some of the tires did have nicks and small cuts in the sidewalls, but none were deep, and those tires were mounted as spares only.
The 16" mud grooved tires have the least tread out of all 3 complete sets, but they allow me to use the 16" wheels I was already stuck with, and give me another option (if ever needed).
The 2 primary sets (ZE80 and DMG2) are both in great condition, with lots of tread, and no damage.
I will be buying a complete set of DMacks in 185/70 as soon as the used ones wear out. But this allows me a full season or more of "learning" curve with the torque band, and putting power down, without tearing up over a grand worth of tires.
I understand what you are saying about tread blocks and edge grip. The Yokohama Geolandar mud tires I use on my Discovery and Range Rover were bought specifically because of the edge pattern. In the Florida sugar sand, I spend a lot of times at weird angles, and if it wasn't for good edge blocks, there are times I would not have gotten out without the winches.

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Pete


Someone, on another forum, pointed out that buying new tires was for the pointy-end guys and everyone else makes do with used tires. I counterpointed that maybe the pointy-end guys are on the pointy end because they aren't driving on crappy old tires that are three sizes too large.

Pete, as somebody else pointed out even more astutely, the real fast guys--not these Big Budget Fish in our little pond, but real fast guys at the Dubya Arsey level are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than all us'n even when they've worn the tires down to the cords..

I've beat guys by more than 25 minutes in Nationals on used Michelins (bought used, then did 2 events before National) who had 6 brand new tires each... (And nice 2,0 motors with SOHC vs my little 1730cc pushrod thing)..

So like everything, it depends..

All a moot point here cause this guy will never "compete" in any sense of the word I know.
If he was really interested he would have already had a whole season done.....instead of barely managing to bolt 2 shocks on in 6 months..
Oh and "install" some stickers..very important...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
Pete, as somebody else pointed out even more astutely, the real fast guys--not these Big Budget Fish in our little pond, but real fast guys at the Dubya Arsey level are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than all us'n even when they've worn the tires down to the cords..

I've beat guys by more than 25 minutes in Nationals on used Michelins (bought used, then did 2 events before National) who had 6 brand new tires each... (And nice 2,0 motors with SOHC vs my little 1730cc pushrod thing)..

So like everything, it depends..

Oh, there's always "it depends", but I can't see trying to go supernutso overkill on the car and then putting crappy old shoes on it. Especially something that is already going to be incredibly difficult to drive because turbo engines have piss-poor driving dynamics, very hard to do any reasonable throttle control. Fine for a AWD vehicle where you're not going to have problems, not so fine for a traction limited vehicle.

But that's just me.

I'd also trust a new recap over an unknown condition used tire. Heck, this year at Nationals, one of my friends delaminated a NEW BFGoodrich rally tire on the way back to the hotel. Not that it makes any difference at all in reality, and if you are driving a front-driver, you're going to be debeading tires anyway, almost always the outside front right when you're in the middle of a corner really leaning on it.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 12:51PM by Pete.

Someone somewhere has done something to prove everyone's point. But to win first you must finish, to finish you must start, to start you must enter, to enter you must have a car... this fool doesn't even have one of those right now, just a shell with a few fancy bits laying around and some beat ass rubber to stuff under it.

I love this thread because it is the gold standard of the internet build thread. A mostly inappropriate car for the job built by a honey-badger of a man. How much shaming will it take to get him moving on this?

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DexterVW
[...] by a honey-badger of a man [...]

Honey badgers are awsome man!
I think a comparison with some sort of mollusc would be more appropriate.
Anyway, it's a good "what not to do" thread, might be useful one day.

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Ask for work.
If they don't give you work, ask for bread.
If they do not give you work or bread, then take bread.

- Emma Goldman

^^^

Yo, excusé moi Monsieur Gagnon, don't vous be dissin a fellow Dan on his VW exploits.
Chaque jour is a learning jour and nous all inhabitons notre place sur la spectrum de very well informed to complete fud depending on notre current knowledge base.
Evolution and releasing the true potential of our species is only possible if people are allowed to develop. It's bad enough that global powers and corporate interests try to suppress our inalienable rights to self determination and human development without fellow rallyists pissing on the aspirations of a potential future Seb Loeb.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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DexterVW
How much shaming will it take to get him moving on this?

Point: I'm not trying to shame anyone. I want to see people out there having fun and continuing to expand our little corner of nutbaggery. You don't DO that by overanalyzing everything.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

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Pete

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DexterVW
How much shaming will it take to get him moving on this?

Point: I'm not trying to shame anyone. I want to see people out there having fun and continuing to expand our little corner of nutbaggery. You don't DO that by overanalyzing everything.

We call that AnalEyesing here, it's when a person has spent enough time analyzing something to have actually physically tested all the various theories and decided which is best and had moved on to other things instead of looking like an ass.

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 05:14PM by ElectroTech.

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ElectroTech
We call that AnalEyesing here, it's when a person has spent enough time analyzing something to have actually physically tested all the various theories and decided which is best and had moved on to other things instead of looking like an ass.

Indeed. I call it FUD-induced project damage. Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt makes you do nothing instead of just doing something, anything.

Because even if you fall flat on your face, you at least moved forward.

FUD-induced project damage is why my car's been broken since early 2015 and I took it out to run this weekend on an open diff (that I threw in just so the car'd be mobile) and a rear axle housing that is floppy like a wet noodle. Even a bad event is better than sitting at home.

It was cold, it was frickin' freezing, it was whiteout conditions driving home with a holed muffler and a suspected cracked header (on a Mazda 13B that cruises at ~4000-4500) and it was fucking glorious.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

"It was cold, it was frickin' freezing, it was whiteout conditions driving home with a holed muffler and a suspected cracked header (on a Mazda 13B that cruises at ~4000-4500) and it was fucking glorious. "

Pete, I love ya' man; and you've been a great help. But we have entirely different definitions of glorious, it seems.

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DanielSL
"It was cold, it was frickin' freezing, it was whiteout conditions driving home with a holed muffler and a suspected cracked header (on a Mazda 13B that cruises at ~4000-4500) and it was fucking glorious. "

Pete, I love ya' man; and you've been a great help. But we have entirely different definitions of glorious, it seems.

The cold sucked. The event was glorious.





Wrong tires, wrong suspension, way the wrong diff and wrong gearing. Don't care, had fun.

Strike the iron.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2016 05:29PM by Pete.

Well, that makes sense. Reminds me of when I was up North skiing. We would hit the slopes sometimes in the negatives on the Mercury. Not including wind chill. But we weren't working, and we weren't at school. So the temp didn't even matter.

When you're doing something you love to do, the outside contributing factors just don't seem to matter as much any more.

Great video!

this is the worst "build" tread ever

Back to turning this into a build thread. Taking advantage of the holiday vacation, to actually transfer everything from the TT to the GTI. Hopefully have it running for tuning in a week or two. Drivers school for this year is on January 28th, and the first RallyCross is January 29th. So five weeks to at least get it running for a shakedown, and pass drivers school.

Got everything off of the TT, and sent it to the crusher. Kept the rear wing, for some strange reason. I'm actually going to see if I can fit it somehow to the GTI, even with its weird curvature, just because. Took the entire ECU and wiring harness, as I need it to get the TT engine running in the Mk. 4 chassis. And got the entire rear brake assemblies off to switch over, at a later date. But for now, I want to get this thing running.

Finished installing the entire lower subframe from the TT into the GTI Chassis. This effectively swapped over the subframe itself, the lower control arms, and the steering rack all as one unit. Keeping the GTI uprights, and struts. Mounted the GTI front brakes onto the TT spindles, so that we can still fit the 15" wheels. Had to swap back to the hubs from the GTI however, so that we can use the GTI axles with the 5 speed transmission swap from the Golf/Jetta 2.0.