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Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

Posted by DanielSL 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 02:57PM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
A car just competed NEFR on off the shelf Bilstein HDs with two rallysprints and two rallycrosses on them and the suspension is still fine.

Are you sure? I think I have the UPS records for shipping the guy some nice inverted 50s (the guy whose truck burned up..)



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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DexterVW
David Baker
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 03:04PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
A car just competed NEFR on off the shelf Bilstein HDs with two rallysprints and two rallycrosses on them and the suspension is still fine.

Are you sure? I think I have the UPS records for shipping the guy some nice inverted 50s (the guy whose truck burned up..)

he says if you did you should resend them as he never got them...

you might be thinking of another e30 thou
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 03:09PM
Quote
DexterVW
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
A car just competed NEFR on off the shelf Bilstein HDs with two rallysprints and two rallycrosses on them and the suspension is still fine.

Are you sure? I think I have the UPS records for shipping the guy some nice inverted 50s (the guy whose truck burned up..)

he says if you did you should resend them as he never got them...

you might be thinking of another e30 thou

The guy I am thinking of I say photos of the stuff installed. I had mixed him and Mike Hooper up and sent wrong bottoms and so sent out correct bottoms..But all those BMWs all look the same to me.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DanielSL
Daniel
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2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 03:34PM
Well... my budget was between 1200 and 1500 dollars u.s., for shocks and springs only. Not mounts, bushings, swaybars, camber plates, etc... Just for shocks/struts/springs. I also wanted to do the rears and fronts separately with a space of a few months as I build the car, to keep the budget flowing into the areas where I will be working.
John flatly stated he could not hit that budget. Fine. No harm, no foul. So I started looking for other suppliers.

In the end; if I drop even 400-500 on Bilstein stuff, and then replace it in a season or less, then I am wasting money. So I go back to my original question of is it a waste of money, in those opinions of those who have run the VW set-ups? It sounds like HD's will be fine for the RX courses, but how much travel would I lose versus going with the HotBits set-up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 03:35PM by DanielSL.
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paperpaper
Dan Downey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 03:44PM
Bilstein's will last you years and years. I unknowingly ran Billy sports for two years on the front and they didnt care. The rears I had in until a few months ago were 250k miles originals from west Germany. (bmw delivered Billy HD's)

I will run the HD's for hopefully multiple rallies as other people have then think about upgrading. Yes I did crash into one too. they dont care.

For RX I would not be worried about one going bad for many years.

Hot bits are mixed bag. Go basic or go for real.
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DanielSL
Daniel
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 09:10AM
The front end repairs are done. The front bumper cover has been clearanced for the front mount intercooler. The new headlights are in. Removal of the A/c equipment has now turned into tracing, understanding, and removing a bunch of the emissions equipment as well.

This coming Friday and weekend I will be researching my transmission codes to understand the ratios, to see if I can get away with one of the 5 speed boxes I have accumulated in its stock form. I am hoping one of the 2.0 4 cylinder golf/jetta boxes I have has the 4.235 final drive in it. That would definitely help spool up the turbo earlier, and I can leave the wide 4th and 5th alone for if I do Rally Sprints later on.
Also, at $100 or less per box, I can keep a spare or two always in the trailer, without it costing a ton.
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DexterVW
David Baker
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 09:12AM
I'm reading through this, not terribly carefully but stupid question... have you competed yet?
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DanielSL
Daniel
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2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 09:16AM
David;

Not yet, in RallyCross. Kind of hard without the car done. But 20+ years ago, in another life, lol. I raced in one series or another on an average of 2 weekends a month from ages 15-22.

Daniel.
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DexterVW
David Baker
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 12:29PM
I would recommend seeing if anyone in the region would let you borrow their car for an event to check it out, you have a lot of interesting assumptions that I think would steer you in a different direction if you competed before finishing the car.
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DanielSL
Daniel
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2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 01:26PM
David;

That's actually a great idea. I have attended all events this year to get to know the competitors, and check out the cars. I have also been volunteering at the events doing tech inspection and timing/scoring. I may be able to run a car at one of the next events, without too much fuss.
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Thomas Kimsey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 02:13PM
I have seen rentals being driven at SCCA rallycrosses before. Just make sure you do opt for the insurance.
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DanielSL
Daniel
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2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 27, 2016 02:58PM
All three events this season have had rental participants. Ford Focus, Fusion, even Mustangs. Toyota Yaris. Hell, there was a Mercedes-AMG CLA 45 at the first event.

I thought about running a rental Focus hatchback, but just cannot seem to ever commit to actually doing that much damage to a rental car.

At the last event, the guy who brought the rental Yaris lost three out of four fender liners, as well as his rear bumper cover.
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DanielSL
Daniel
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Location: Vero Beach, Florida
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2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
August 01, 2016 07:12AM
I've gotten my gearbox codes finally all decoded and sorted. Got rid of the stock box from the turbo 1.8 in the GTi, and the TT 6-speed box, with its rear output, and much heavier weight.

I've secured a second 5 speed Golf/Jetta box with the code I wanted. And gotten rid of one that had gear ratios I just couldn't use.

I now have two boxes that are both 02J with the "EGT" code. This gives me the following gear ratios;

1: 3.778, 2: 2.118, 3: 1.36, 4: 1.029, 5: 0.837. Final: 4.235

Using the following calculation site; http://www.blocklayer.com/rpm-geareng.aspx , I found my shift points will be approximately;

29 mph, 52 mph, 81 mph, 107 mph, and 131 mph.

If I change out 4th and 5th from an "EUQ" code box, I can change the shifts to 100 and 124 respectively.

My question would be in regards to Rally Sprints; would the stock numbers be fine, or should I change out 4th and 5th when I have the box apart to install the lsd?

It feels like the 7 mph difference in both high gears really wouldn't matter much. What would make a difference I feel, would be switching just the 3rd gear set, and changing that shift point from 81 down to 75. Nut then again, I feel like allowing the car to stretch the extra 6 mph in 3rd makes sense, with the speed numbers I have seen posted in stage reports.

All numbers were set using a 6,000 shift point to keep the turbo spooling, and a 7,000 rev limiter in place to protect the motor.

After some more playing with the numbers, if I set the shift point and shift light at 6,400; I can get shift points at:

30, 55, 85, and 114. That seems like pretty good speeds for both RallyCross and RallySprints.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2016 07:19AM by DanielSL.
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Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
August 01, 2016 07:22AM
What stages are you getting your speed reports from? Local rallysprints?
Rallysprints generally are pretty slow compared to a national rally. Are you running SCCA rallysprints? If so the max speed is spelled out in the rules.

Quote
SCCA Rules
Maximum speeds on straights should not normally exceed 70 miles per hour for the fastest
vehicles. Chicanes may be used to control speeds on longer straight sections.
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paperpaper
Dan Downey
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e30


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
August 01, 2016 07:39AM
Quote
DanielSL
I've gotten my gearbox codes finally all decoded and sorted. Got rid of the stock box from the turbo 1.8 in the GTi, and the TT 6-speed box, with its rear output, and much heavier weight.

I've secured a second 5 speed Golf/Jetta box with the code I wanted. And gotten rid of one that had gear ratios I just couldn't use.

I now have two boxes that are both 02J with the "EGT" code. This gives me the following gear ratios;

1: 3.778, 2: 2.118, 3: 1.36, 4: 1.029, 5: 0.837. Final: 4.235

Using the following calculation site; http://www.blocklayer.com/rpm-geareng.aspx , I found my shift points will be approximately;

29 mph, 52 mph, 81 mph, 107 mph, and 131 mph.

If I change out 4th and 5th from an "EUQ" code box, I can change the shifts to 100 and 124 respectively.

My question would be in regards to Rally Sprints; would the stock numbers be fine, or should I change out 4th and 5th when I have the box apart to install the lsd?

It feels like the 7 mph difference in both high gears really wouldn't matter much. What would make a difference I feel, would be switching just the 3rd gear set, and changing that shift point from 81 down to 75. Nut then again, I feel like allowing the car to stretch the extra 6 mph in 3rd makes sense, with the speed numbers I have seen posted in stage reports.

All numbers were set using a 6,000 shift point to keep the turbo spooling, and a 7,000 rev limiter in place to protect the motor.

After some more playing with the numbers, if I set the shift point and shift light at 6,400; I can get shift points at:

30, 55, 85, and 114. That seems like pretty good speeds for both RallyCross and RallySprints.

Rally sprint keeps you right at or under 75 ish. all competitors barely touching 4th in a 5speed car. really not a gear you need to care about.
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