Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

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DanielSL
I wanted to post some photos of the lower control arm differences, which made me choose to swap over the entire Audi lower sub-frame. The first photo is the stamped steel LCA's on the Mk. 4 VW's.
The following photos are of the cast units from the Audi TT.

Great. Once again you have a choice and you do the one is is the superficial.
When you ever get this done and drive it 3 or 4 years down the road, neither will make a measurable difference..

If in 7 or 8 years you decide you try to rally this, how will you strengthen the alloy ones?


Because any fool can weld on the steel...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

We went to do the rear brake swap over from the TT, and found the rear wheel bearings were fried. Since they're completely dis-assembled anyways, putting in new rear wheel bearings, and cleaning everything up.
The rear brakes from the TT are only 0.2 inches larger in diameter, and use the same size pad, and the same size rear caliper piston. So the flow, and the clamping force is the same. Allows for leaving the stock master cylinder, and brake components.
The big difference is going from a rotor only 9mm wide in the GTi to 22mm wide, and Vented, in the TT. I know this has been a big contention in this thread, but as I had the entire TT to part out, I feel it was a good swap.
Brakes are now 288 mm x 25 mm Front, and 256 mm x 22 mm Rear. Going to stay with stock vented, VW/Audi rotors, but switch to Hawk pads for the Contingency in SCCA.

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DanielSL
Thanks for the good information, guys.

Anyone have basic alignment ideas for front wheel drive in a RallyCross specification?

On the front, I was thinking 0.25 total toe-in, and as much negative camber as I can get, to start out with. Probably 1-2 degrees positive caster. Rear axle set at 0 toe, and about -1 degree camber, if I can get it out of the stock adjustments.

Front toe zero. Turn in is way better. That's all I know

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DanielSL
Brakes are now 288 mm x 25 mm Front, and 256 mm x 22 mm Rear. Going to stay with stock vented, VW/Audi rotors, but switch to Hawk pads for the Contingency in SCCA.

You need to win a National level event for the contingency. And you don't need to run their pads, just the sticker.

And you win something like a $25 off coupon for any Hawk product. Big whoop.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2016 07:41AM by Pete.

Thanks, Stephen. I will go with Zero toe, for the drivers school and first event, and see how that feels. Much appreciated.

Pete; it just seems ridiculous to run their sticker for contingency, but not actually run their pads. On top of that, I am sure it would be deemed cheating, and have you lose any points you have accumulated, if it was ever caught in tech inspection, or someone decided to really look at the car.

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DanielSL
Pete; it just seems ridiculous to run their sticker for contingency, but not actually run their pads. On top of that, I am sure it would be deemed cheating, and have you lose any points you have accumulated, if it was ever caught in tech inspection, or someone decided to really look at the car.

How is it cheating? Why would anyone care that Hawk is paying for advertising without having their product on the car,
If hawk doesn't care? What exactly is truly unique about any manufacturers brake pad that could be identified after they have been used for any form of racing? You think the color and hawk stamp are going to still be there?

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!

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DanielSL
Thanks, Stephen. I will go with Zero toe, for the drivers school and first event, and see how that feels. Much appreciated.

Pete; it just seems ridiculous to run their sticker for contingency, but not actually run their pads. On top of that, I am sure it would be deemed cheating, and have you lose any points you have accumulated, if it was ever caught in tech inspection, or someone decided to really look at the car.

There is no tech inspection for contingency. Plus, at Nationals, we were explicitly told that you only have to run the stickers. This is why almost EVERY car you see at Nationals has Hawk decals on them. The only thing they care about is that the decals are in a specific location (one each rear side corner of car, one as close to dead-center at the front of the car)

This is EXTREMELY COMMON at all levels of motorsport. I remember putting rally sponsor decals over rival decals on a stage rally car because of a "no competing manufacturer" clause, in this case something like Hawk decals over Ferodo for example. That's not what was on the car, that's just the sticker you had to put on.

Hell even in NASCAR where there is actual money involved, all they care about is the decal. As pointed out above, it's strictly for advertising. Apparently it works, too

If a contingency requires something, it will be spelled out in the contingency paperwork. Volkswagen contingency, for example, requires you have a Volkswagen engine in a Volkswagen car. Mazda doesn't require a Mazda engine if it is a Mazda car, but you do have to have specific decals in specific location with specific colors, and send photographs with your first contingency claim of the year. When Hankook tires was doing their contingency, on the off chance that you managed to win a class on their shitty tires, I don't remember if you had to submit proof that you were running four of their tires but you did have to submit a copy of the receipt from when you bought the tires, so it seemed like they didn't care if you RAN the tires, just that you bought four new ones...

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2016 03:34PM by Pete.

Even though the rear Audi rotors were only 0.2 inches larger in diameter; the amount that the caliper comes outwards to be able to wrap around the wider, vented rotors, brought them almost into contact with the 15" wheels.
I am going to have to check the fitment again now with the 15" Speedline wheels as well, to know if I will need spacers to run those on the car.
However, the stock Golf/Jetta wheels just clear them. The backing plates had to be bent outwards ever so slightly, so we could keep them on the car.

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DanielSL
I am going to have to check the fitment again now with the 15" Speedline wheels as well, to know if I will need spacers to run those on the car.

Oh for crying out loud.... do you know the size of the rear discs on a Fiat 500 R3T? A PROPER racecar, with a proper gearbox, heaps of power and more importantly: torque - and setup for TARMAC - with actual grip - and a proper driver?

251x10 mm. is what...

Citroen C2R2 MAX (ultimate evolution): 247x9 mm...

Stop obsessing, put the stockers back on, and be done with it - you might actually hit stage some day if you take that advice...

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Brgrds
Brian

Bleeding the brakes and cooling now. Headed to the body shop, for full frame check out, and alignment this afternoon. Under its own power.
As soon as alignment is done, the intercooler plumbing will be fitted, cut, and installed this week; and the front clip will go back on for good. That gives me three weeks to work out the bugs, tighten up all the loose ends, and make sure it will last throughout its first weekend.
Drivers school on the 28th, and first event on the 29th for a "no points" shake down run.

Running, driving, RallyCross car. Now for dialing it in, and fixing the weak links found during the test and tune.

It raced! no wonder the world is ending!

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paperpaper
It raced! no wonder the world is ending!

The Mk. 4 has nothing to do with Trump being elected. A car cannot vote.

Does anyone have a good idea on installing sunroof block off panels?

I know in stage rally, you cannot use fiberglass or carbon fiber; but luckily in RallyCross and RallySprints I can.

I had the boys in lamination lay me up a panel in glass, thick enough to be strong, but light enough to flex to match the curve of the roofline.

I am going to cut out a mounting hole in the panel, to mount a roof vent, so that I do not have to cut into the metal of the roof itself.

I was thinking of welding in tabs every 6 inches or so, to the inside of the roof skin, and then attache by rivets. Then between the panel and the car itself, I will use the adhesive they use for mounting windshields.

Any thoughts or ideas welcome.

Sometimes its the little things... more whooosh!