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Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

Posted by DanielSL 
Josh Wimpey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 11:15AM
Quote
ElectroTech
Yeah your tuner is the problem, put it back to stock tuning and go somewhere else, basic stuff, no need for a dyno.

Exactly. People have been putting KO4 turbos on 1.8t VW engines since they came out with the platform nearly 2 decades ago. All of these issues are long ago sorted by trusted and serious tuners who know what they are doing.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 11:16AM
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
DanielSL
Josh;

The engine has a brand new N75, and most of the piping has been changed when we started using the reinforced silicone Forge hoses. Also, with the large tubing of the FMIC, I would say we are more over-sized, than under-sized.

One of the sponsors suggested I get this:

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=112_303&products_id=2017

I've been thinking of it. I just don't know if its a waste of money for a RallyCross car or not. Obviously I don't want to damage an interference motor, so anything that protects the engine makes sense to me. But since we already have the full Maestro suite, I think tuning makes more sense.

There is no blame to the tuner or the shop. We have only base lined the car, and run one test and tune. There's a lot of data to play with, and a heck of a lot more running and tuning before anyone can say they don't know what to do. Can't figure out everything based off of one test and tune and a couple of logs.

I really need to schedule and pay for like 3-4 hours of dyno time solid, and sit on the dyno with the computer and the tuner. Problem is my tuners shop is 45 minutes away from where the closest chassis dyno is at. So I'm paying for both shops time.

Band-aid for now. Surgery later...
Yeah your tuner is the problem, put it back to stock tuning and go somewhere else, basic stuff, no need for a dyno.

No the tuner isn't the problem..This guy is the problem.. Self-made problems..

Yes you're right that a stock 2 Point Slow n.a. would be more than enough to go jerk off in a flat field and i agree, but more than a year ago this guys was told that by everybody here ,,Nope he has to have a turbo motor with LOTS of HP---to go jerk off in a flat grassy field...
There's the problem..



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danster
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 12:41PM
Jeez, noticed my email is getting notifications for this thread. eye rolling smiley

Thought it would be pics of dirt getting thrown aboot the place and trophies claimed.... but no, more waffle on boost issues.

Running a talent compensator has its drawbacks. I bet my old car cost less to build than you will spend on tuning paraphernalia.
Man the feck up and lob that boosted overvalved shite outa the engine bay and dump a 8v in there.
N/A FTW! thumbs up



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass
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DanielSL
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 12:49PM
Danny, we have a night event on Saturday. So, hopefully there will be plenty of good pics from that. I'm sure I have spent more on decals for this project than you had in the first car; but to each their own. For now, this one will have to do...
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MarkHille
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 01:35PM
Quote
DanielSL
Josh;

The engine has a brand new N75, and most of the piping has been changed when we started using the reinforced silicone Forge hoses. Also, with the large tubing of the FMIC, I would say we are more over-sized, than under-sized.

One of the sponsors suggested I get this:

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=112_303&products_id=2017

I've been thinking of it. I just don't know if its a waste of money for a RallyCross car or not. Obviously I don't want to damage an interference motor, so anything that protects the engine makes sense to me. But since we already have the full Maestro suite, I think tuning makes more sense.

There is no blame to the tuner or the shop. We have only base lined the car, and run one test and tune. There's a lot of data to play with, and a heck of a lot more running and tuning before anyone can say they don't know what to do. Can't figure out everything based off of one test and tune and a couple of logs.

I really need to schedule and pay for like 3-4 hours of dyno time solid, and sit on the dyno with the computer and the tuner. Problem is my tuners shop is 45 minutes away from where the closest chassis dyno is at. So I'm paying for both shops time.

Band-aid for now. Surgery later...


---When all else fails, install a manual boost controller in parallel or in series with the N75 valve and adjust it to just below the tune's max boost command --- if this does not end your boost being too high, then start diagnosis over because you missed something.

<--------This step Josh so kindly suggested would save you at least $350 and probably untold hours of set up time and hassle. Probably gonna save your motor too at the rate your headed. I edited Josh's suggestion just because surge and having too high of a MAP reading (boost psi) is two different things and you (not Josh....Josh knows what he is talking about) should consider the difference. Surge is when you find yourself on the left side of the surge line on a compressor map. Google compressor map. It can occur at at least two different times. 1. When you are on the gas. This means you are on the left side of that line and have a compressor that isn't the right one for your motor/setup. Solution----Buy the right turbo. 2. When you let off the gas. This puts you on the left side of the line and can make funny noises. Google "rally turbo flutter video" and listen for the pigeon. BOV and recirculation valves help prevent this. This doesn't show up as too much boost on your psi gauge or your logs (as long as it is plumbed in the correct spot). This won't blow your motor. Some argue it isn't good for the turbo but I personally don't think that should be your biggest worry.

Over boost or what ever you want to call it....lets call it having too high a MAP reading will blow your motor real quick. A BOV or splitter won't (or at least shouldn't) solve this. Having a wastegate that moves correctly, a properly functioning n75, and the proper settings/map in your ecu should stop this. You should research this more because messing this up is the quickest way to turn that new motor into a very large paper weight...or several small ones if your lucky. You don't NEED a dyno to tune boost (especially a MBC- manual boost controller). A large parking lot with no police and no children can work. The desert can work. Country roads in the middle of no where with good lines of sight can work. A field (might be your best bet if those are the conditions you are actually going to be driving in are). Use your imagination. You NEED a dyno for ignition timing changes. If the guy your working with will only do it on a dyno well....I guess you are going to pay for it. Make sure it is worth it.

Wait a minute....is this the guy that doesn't listen to anything any one suggests to him ever? eye popping smiley
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DanielSL
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 02:12PM
Mark;

Thanks for that. That explanation along with what to look for will help out a lot. Obviously with this weekend being a night race, I will just be driving. Not worrying about tuning, or logging anything.
But there is an area within 30 minutes of trailering time, where I can spend an entire day of running and testing. Thousands of acres of open property from a failed residential build back in the 80's. People use it for illegal street drag racing, off-roading, hunting, etc... If you show up with enough people, they allow you to block off entire sections and use it. As long as you have it blocked off, the cops won't even hassle you.
I might take a half dozen cars out there, and get some good hard running time in. Instead of 2-3 minute RX runs, 10-15 minutes of full throttle, hard on the engine stuff.

I appreciate all of the details.
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fliz
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 07, 2017 04:22PM
Quote
MarkHille

Wait a minute....is this the guy that doesn't listen to anything any one suggests to him ever? eye popping smiley

Yes. I'm pretty sure that's why nobody even tried to stop him from doing a fiberglass sunroof cover.
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DanielSL
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 08, 2017 05:42AM
Actually, Dumbass, Pete did at the top of page 28. I have already spoken to my regional Chair, and head tech inspector. I have submitted a petition to the SCCA RXB, for an official filing.
As the glass thickness I am using in FRP matches the glass thickness in the OEM glass sunroof, there is a chance I can get an exemption. Its a lot safer than having the tempered glass over my head. I even sent in structural and chemical documentation from the head of my engineering department to support it. As I make boats for a living, I have a lot more confidence in a FRP panel over my head, than actual glass. Once the full cage is in, that won't even matter at all.
If the board decides that it does not allow an exemption, at least I tried. That's why I asked here... for the feedback. Pete was courteous enough to reply, and set the wheels in motion.
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danster
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 08, 2017 06:24AM
Quote
DanielSL
Actually, Dumbass...

Is Dumbass a higher or lower position than Jackass? eye rolling smiley

It better be lower or I'll be well peed off that Chad has been elevated to a higher position than me, especially after all my input to the thread and I've still to officially make the Jackass grade. angry smiley



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass
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DanielSL
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 08, 2017 06:34AM
Actually Dan, we're all Dumbasses here. Spending money on a form of motorsport that we will never be able to translate into an actual driving career. We do it for fun, and for the camaraderie. Not for the fame or the glory.
I know you want Jackass so badly, but so far you have just been one of the guys. There's only one true Jack-Ass here. Sadly he wasn't at SandBlast, to have his reign ended.
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 08, 2017 08:37AM
Quote
DanielSL
There's only one true Jack-Ass here. Sadly he wasn't at SandBlast, to have his reign ended.

Gotta name names. Lots of us missed Sandblast.



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DexterVW
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 09, 2017 02:45PM
sometimes I still debate whether Daniel is a the greatest troll on the interwebs or he's just drank to much swamp water down there in FL.

put that puppy back to stock and tell me how you like the boost response and reliability. Or keep pissing away your money to this "tuner" that will now constantly tell you that you need more mods and updates to keep his wallet full.
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DanielSL
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 09, 2017 03:40PM
The tuner is the one that refused to tune it to Stage 1, and gave me the reasons why. It has a torque curve that is not linear at all. I don't need any extra Hp or Tq. We only did the Maestro so we could do full logging, and adjust as needed when we are able to do testing. He could have taken 450.00 from me for a Stage I tune alone, but told me no, it wasn't needed. He is extremely competent.
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ElectroTech
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 09, 2017 08:04PM
Quote
DanielSL
The tuner is the one that refused to tune it to Stage 1, and gave me the reasons why. It has a torque curve that is not linear at all. I don't need any extra Hp or Tq. We only did the Maestro so we could do full logging, and adjust as needed when we are able to do testing. He could have taken 450.00 from me for a Stage I tune alone, but told me no, it wasn't needed. He is extremely competent.
LOL, it runs like shit, he sells "stage" tuning, he says he doesn't need to do anything and he is extremely competent???? Makes perfect sense, how is it you are measuring this competence?



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
March 09, 2017 09:12PM
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
DanielSL
The tuner is the one that refused to tune it to Stage 1, and gave me the reasons why. It has a torque curve that is not linear at all. I don't need any extra Hp or Tq. We only did the Maestro so we could do full logging, and adjust as needed when we are able to do testing. He could have taken 450.00 from me for a Stage I tune alone, but told me no, it wasn't needed. He is extremely competent.
LOL, it runs like shit, he sells "stage" tuning, he says he doesn't need to do anything and he is extremely competent???? Makes perfect sense, how is it you are measuring this competence?

Steve, don't think...Thinking about this guy, anything he says, anything he says anybody else has said, anything is going to make you head 'splode all over the tundra.. You gotta understand..its
Flar-duh, and Flor-idiots and Mass-holes... They are all brain damaged...lead in the water as kids, then the heat and humidity cooks enzymes in the brain which never repair once a person is an adult.. (that's why kids can handle fevers that would leave adults with damage).. Just back away from the keyboard and just shake you head..



John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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