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Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

Posted by DanielSL 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 17, 2016 03:45PM
Quote
DanielSL
I'm thinking that with everything out of the car, and since I'm doing the clutch anyways, this would be a good time to do the LSD. Any of you guys who run FWD have a favorite between Quaife, Poloquin, or Wavetrac? I have a lot of experience with Quaife from the IT days, but with all the time that has gone by, is there a better option available now?

Twirly-gear diffs are for tea-kettle boys..You know? Girly men..
The guys who read these kinda books in between their grueling heats:



So if you're moving up to the lowest levels of manly competition, loose surface grass-o-cross and you don't want to be like the Pommie Bastard here


Then get a manly diff---one which works not that swishy kind
Get this


Not one of these..


The good one looks like this inside and since you worked in the hot shot speed shop you can see why its so much better



Or if you want get one of those useless twirly gear things and since you're in Flar-duh and this guy is in VA
get this licence plate at the same time to go with that diff




John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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DanielSL
Daniel
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 17, 2016 03:52PM
Well hell then, I'll just take the Detroit Tru-Tracs out of my Disco II, and machine them to fit the Mk. 4 then...
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Thomas Kimsey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 17, 2016 04:02PM
Don't know if you missed the point or just being sarcastic but what John was saying is you want a clutch type diff, not a helical or torsen diff. Clutch type work much better for gravel applications, gear type are more suited for tarmac.
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DanielSL
Daniel
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 06:15AM
Just being sarcastic Thomas. Saw the exploded diagram John posted, and it reminds me of my Rover set-up in my off-road Disco. Have a Detroit locker in the rear, and a Detroit Tru-Trac in the front. Internals look very similar to the Rover "gripper" type he showed.

So that means no Quaife, no Peloquin, no OBX, and no Wavetrac. Does that leave only the KAAZ LSD for the VW/Audi box?
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Thomas Kimsey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 07:04AM
For a rallycross only car that is not being driven far to events you can just weld the diff. Any clutch type with decent preload is not going to unlock during rallycross conditions. Do you have any photos or videos from the surface you will be racing on?
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DanielSL
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 07:13AM
Every event this year is at the same location, less than 10 miles from my house, which is nice. All sugar sand. Even when it gets wet, it just packs it harder.

http://cfrrallycross.blogspot.com/
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Paddy1337
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 07:14AM
Quote
john vanlandingham

As for all the others you talked to and got email from about how bad and mean I am:

Fuck them. There are a lot of very dishonest and immoral people with their own set of agendas out there many who have only fleeting and limited experience and want to sell THEIR stuff who are running around perpetually butt-hurt because they have done nothing unusual or remarkable ever in this --or any other---sport and will say anything.


Better a clear conscious than a good reputation.
.

I'm curious. How many people that decide they hate you have actually picked up the phone and called you? And, those that do actually call but still have issue, how many of them sounded like they have great big Manginas? Maybe because words hurt?

Everyone is not going to get along with everyone, I get that. But the couple times I've talked with JVL I felt like I was talking to a long lost buddy; do I get a different person when I call?
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DanielSL
Daniel
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 08:02AM
Agreed. All of my e-mail communications with John have been cordial and informative. Only on this site has he been pompous and arrogant. I think the term once used was keyboard commando. I don't get it, but enough has been said, that I listened. However, because of his knowledge on the subject, I still went to him first for suggestions and quotations.
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Thomas Kimsey
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 09:33AM
Quote
DanielSL
Every event this year is at the same location, less than 10 miles from my house, which is nice. All sugar sand. Even when it gets wet, it just packs it harder.

http://cfrrallycross.blogspot.com/

If you are budget concerned try a welded diff since you don't plan for stage. Can always get an LSD later if you want to do a tarmac or stage event.
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Pete
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 11:45AM
One of my friends ran open diffs for a LOOONG time and went with a Wavetrac and instantly said he hated it, car couldn't turn anymore.

On the other hand, it also meant no more breaking stock diffs.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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Aaron Luptak
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 11:52AM
Quote
DanielSL
Just being sarcastic Thomas. Saw the exploded diagram John posted, and it reminds me of my Rover set-up in my off-road Disco. Have a Detroit locker in the rear, and a Detroit Tru-Trac in the front. Internals look very similar to the Rover "gripper" type he showed.

So that means no Quaife, no Peloquin, no OBX, and no Wavetrac. Does that leave only the KAAZ LSD for the VW/Audi box?

Gripper out of the UK? http://gripperlsd.com/gripper.html
MFactory? http://technik.teammfactory.com/metal-plate-lsd

If I was buying new, I'd probably be buying a gripper, as their plate design should be stronger, as the "ears" are trapezoids/splines instead of rectangular. KAAZ in my rx car, MFactory in the trans destined for my stage car.



KF7RWG
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 11:53AM
Quote
DanielSL
Just being sarcastic Thomas. Saw the exploded diagram John posted, and it reminds me of my Rover set-up in my off-road Disco. Have a Detroit locker in the rear, and a Detroit Tru-Trac in the front. Internals look very similar to the Rover "gripper" type he showed.

So that means no Quaife, no Peloquin, no OBX, and no Wavetrac. Does that leave only the KAAZ LSD for the VW/Audi box?

First. Me pompous? I hain't that one making really outrageous claims of "I spent $10,000 on suspension for...." a fucking limp-dick Improved Touring car..
in the 90s..

If this is true then it shows a serious lack of judgement, no analysis, no cost benefit calculations..

Or bragging I worked in some "tuner shop". Jeeezuz.eye rolling smiley
(and neglected to say WHAT you did there....couple have been on the phone at the front desk..could have been "tuning", could have been slamming parts on all day---we don't know)

Look it's clear you have a big temper, not surprising where youre from and where you are.. Politeness doesn't penetrate so fuck it..

Its also clear that your temper is so quick that I guess it makes you cross-eyed..


Let me help you:
This is a Tru-trac


Twirly gears

here is a Peloquin



Here is a Quaiffe:


And here is the Gleason-Torsen..



Let me ask clearly. You said
Quote

Internals look very similar to the Rover "gripper" type he showed.

That this looks "very similar" to those Twirly gear things?


The Kazz, which looks like this internally


As I suggested, if you were working on high-performance cars in that tuner shop the problems of the Kazz--aside from their atrocious customer service--- should be obvious.
Bigger hint:


Gripper: (or Tran-x)


See the difference? See the problem? See the solution?

Dude, I have no idea who you are, how old, what you do for work, what actual experience you have and frankly, at this point, I'm no interested in knowing..
BUT all this posting of stuff is MAINLY for the lurkers who really ARE interested in learning how to have the most fun for the most reasonable outlay of cash..

It SEEMS that you want "affirmation" of already made decisions..not discussion..

And it SEEMS you can't draw inferences from pretty piccies and carefully constructed questions to guide you to the right answers.

I don't know what to suggest. I make suggestions, I even supply excellent photos clearly indicating the correct choice.
I could tell you what you NEED to do, but you seem completely impervious to good solid advice like
Just drive the fucking stock fucking car on 14s and that's it.

That's IF the driving the grass-o-cross is the important thing..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 11:55AM
Quote
Aaron Luptak
as their plate design should be stronger, as the "ears" are trapezoids/splines instead of rectangular. KAAZ in my rx car, MFactory in the trans destined for my stage car.

Youse fawkin fawk. I wuz hinting all round that to see if this guy can see the differences and if he understands instantly what that spline form means.
You ruined it.
I'm gonna go pout.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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mekilljoydammit
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Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 12:13PM
Not that it matters much, but I think that's a Cusco, not a Kaaz. Same stuff anyway.

Do they broach the splines in the housing or what? I know how the Mazda factory ones with the semicircle looking tabs are made, but the Gripper one has me scratching my head a bit.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
May 18, 2016 12:38PM
Quote
mekilljoydammit
Not that it matters much, but I think that's a Cusco, not a Kaaz. Same stuff anyway.

Do they broach the splines in the housing or what? I know how the Mazda factory ones with the semicircle looking tabs are made, but the Gripper one has me scratching my head a bit.

Fairly sure its a broach job The old square ones wes for sure (25 years ago I was doing a lot of ground work for making some diffs and talked to Tran-x and ZF UK competition liaison man and as somebody just said "You ought to be a Process Injur-near" because I am always thinking of the machining process to make stuff better and quicker)
A second feature which is really important in modern little FWD boxes is this:
Many modern diffs are TIE KNEE itty bitty, miniscule little buggers..
Those little short spine things--aside from being stronger design just from the angle deal also allow more of the available diameter to be friction surface area, and more area is better-er-er than less area..
The Japonaise solution is really thin discs and plates...and so they can stuff in MORE discs and plates..Cool BUT.
The thin plates means thin little ears and that square shape means much higher chance of simply shearing off the ears..
Seen it several times...then you have all these fragments of shit floating around in the diff getting in the bearings and between the toofies of the diff and final drive..
Ugh.

So bigger disc, more area less plates but more reliability..

Choice? Gripper..maybe 3J
Other thing is he'll talk about specials.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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