Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

Posted by DanielSL 
Pete
Pete Remner
Infallible Moderator
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,927


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 14, 2016 11:45AM
Quote
Paddy1337
Quote
Pete

Of course, I don't know nothin', I've only been doing it since back when there were four classes and it was scored autocross-style, only fastest single run counts.

Wait. Have they gone full autox style with classing now? Last time I did an autox there were 4 classes; 2wd & 4wd, each of which broken up by street tire or rally tire.

In 2004 it was run watcha brung, under or over 2 liters divided by two or four wheel drive. Then they did a bunch of things and now it's settled on a matrix of stock/prepared/modified and front/rear/all wheel drive.

Funnily enough, modified rear and front were one class until 2012. Everyone ran a front drive car except for one or two people here and there. Now MR tends to be the largest class always (have been to where they outnumbered all AWDs combined) and MF is shrinking drastically.

At Eastern States there were 14 MR cars and four MF.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
Junior Moderator
Location: Lookout Mountain, GA
Join Date: 02/28/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,113

Rally Car:
Colts are in Finland; now '87 325i, '89 325i



Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 14, 2016 08:23PM
Quote
Pete
I have never seen a thoroughly gutted car run faster than a heavy car.

With the exception of a 2.slow A3 golf or A2 of any ilk.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Pete
Pete Remner
Infallible Moderator
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,927


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 14, 2016 08:30PM
Quote
wvonkessler
Quote
Pete
I have never seen a thoroughly gutted car run faster than a heavy car.

With the exception of a 2.slow A3 golf or A2 of any ilk.

And you know what THOSE have that most other cars don't have?

The absolute minimum of unsprung weight. The twist beam rear suspension basically has none, the front end is very minimalistic, and heck a lot of those ABA engined cars still had solid 9.4 rotors up front.

Leon Drake's Rabbit/Golf/Caddy thingus is kind of an exception with its Miata rear suspension, but he has the suspension nailed, and that car is planted, looks like he can put the car anywhere he wants to. It doesn't bounce all over the place like most super lightweight cars do. THAT is the key thing, if the car isn't stable then you can't put it where you want to and, in this discipline, that is the #1 criteria over all other things.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2016 08:34PM by Pete.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
tdrrally
edward mucklow
Mega Moderator
Location: charleston,wv
Join Date: 05/31/2011
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 736

Rally Car:
ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle



Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 08:22AM
so what is being said is , the best investment is seat time?



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Pete
Pete Remner
Infallible Moderator
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,927


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 12:59PM
Practice with many entry of event. Not dumb shit stuck on side of car.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DanielSL
Daniel
Super Moderator
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Join Date: 03/02/2016
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 304

Rally Car:
2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 04:16PM
Pete; Leon Drakes build of his Caddy was the reason I decided to get back into motorsports again. I saw his build on Vortex, researched RX, and saw my Region did all their events close to my home, and went from there. His pictures of what his golf looked like after its roll is the reason I went with the decision of a full cage instead of a bar, after promising my wife I would take no more risks after the motorcycle accident.

Edward; Any thing you do needs "seat" time to get better. Thats kind of an understatement, and pretty much rhetorical. Autocross, RX, track attacks, defensive driving, boating, offshore racing, flying planes or helicopters. It even crosses over to sports. Practice makes perfect. I don't care if it was playing the drums when I was a kid, or live fire practice when I was in the military. But you cannot have seat time in a car, without a running car first, lol.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Pete
Pete Remner
Infallible Moderator
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,927


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 04:40PM
I was there for one of his rolls... which happened after a rear stub broke... Keeps giving me pause regarding rallycrossing my GTI.

Of course I have an interesting solution sitting on the floor at the shop...



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
danster
Danny McGee
Senior Moderator
Location: Haggisland UUK
Join Date: 01/04/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 384

Rally Car:
VWs (for my sins)


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 04:41PM
Quote
tdrrally
so what is being said is , the best investment is seat time?

Quite possibly, but as long as that "seat time" is actually spent driving the car and not sitting on a seat in front of a computer fapping on t'internet about driving the car.



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DanielSL
Daniel
Super Moderator
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Join Date: 03/02/2016
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 304

Rally Car:
2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 04:52PM
Quote
Pete
I was there for one of his rolls... which happened after a rear stub broke... Keeps giving me pause regarding rallycrossing my GTI.

Of course I have an interesting solution sitting on the floor at the shop...

That's the one. And from everything I researched, going to Mk. 4 stub axles was the answer... hence why I chose a Mk. 4 for my starting point. With the loose and lax RX rules, I could have put a built 2.0 16v, or a 1.8T into a Mk.1 or Mk.2 if I wanted to, but parts support and ease of finding a rust free shell on a Mk. 4 just made good sense.

I even ended up going with Kirk for my rollcage builder, because of Leons thread.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DanielSL
Daniel
Super Moderator
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Join Date: 03/02/2016
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 304

Rally Car:
2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 15, 2016 06:07PM
Here's where I am sitting at ride height wise, for now. Obviously, with the new engine/trans installed, and the weight of the cage being pretty much equalized in the center of the wheel base, I am expecting it to settle about a 1/2 inch to an inch in the rear, and almost two inches in the front.
The roller wheels are full sized spares, and they are 185/70 tires, so this should be about what it looks like with the DMacks mounted.I have to finish modifying the stock GTi front bumper cover to fit the larger front mount intercooler, and remove the splitter, as that will only lose me clearance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2016 06:13PM by DanielSL.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Attachments:
open | download - GEDC0212.JPG (62.2 KB)
GEDC0212.JPG
DanielSL
Daniel
Super Moderator
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Join Date: 03/02/2016
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 304

Rally Car:
2005 VW Mk. 4 Golf GTI 1.8T


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 02:02PM
Rear suspension question:

Instead of spending the money on the Bilstein HD's, and then after only a season or so, replacing them; I am thinking of just biting the bullet and going with the HotBits suspension. Its expensive, but at least its in my budget.

With the rears, the OE travel is 235mm, which is 9 1/4". HotBits shortens the travel to 219mm, or 8.6". Does this make sense to those of you that have run solid rear beam VW's in competition. Will this be enough travel? I know I'm building for RX, but if I do decide to run a couple of Rally Sprints per year, I want to be able to do it on the same suspension at this price point.

Thanks.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
tdrrally
edward mucklow
Mega Moderator
Location: charleston,wv
Join Date: 05/31/2011
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 736

Rally Car:
ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle



Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 02:15PM
Quote
DanielSL
Rear suspension question:

Instead of spending the money on the Bilstein HD's, and then after only a season or so, replacing them; I am thinking of just biting the bullet and going with the HotBits suspension. Its expensive, but at least its in my budget.

With the rears, the OE travel is 235mm, which is 9 1/4". HotBits shortens the travel to 219mm, or 8.6". Does this make sense to those of you that have run solid rear beam VW's in competition. Will this be enough travel? I know I'm building for RX, but if I do decide to run a couple of Rally Sprints per year, I want to be able to do it on the same suspension at this price point.

Thanks.

i would spend the money with john, better than hotbits and still have all the travel!



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 02:31PM
Quote
tdrrally
Quote
DanielSL
Rear suspension question:

Instead of spending the money on the Bilstein HD's, and then after only a season or so, replacing them; I am thinking of just biting the bullet and going with the HotBits suspension. Its expensive, but at least its in my budget.

With the rears, the OE travel is 235mm, which is 9 1/4". HotBits shortens the travel to 219mm, or 8.6". Does this make sense to those of you that have run solid rear beam VW's in competition. Will this be enough travel? I know I'm building for RX, but if I do decide to run a couple of Rally Sprints per year, I want to be able to do it on the same suspension at this price point.

Thanks.



i would spend the money with john, better than hotbits and still have all the travel!

Thank you and yeah even the inverted 40s are HUGELY better suited than those horrible nearly ridgid, oversprung, short travel Hotbitch thangs..but still way OVERKILL.

But I have spoken with this guy, he does not listen, and he "wants to" spend money...I said for what he is doing new-ish fresh stock stuff WILL WORK and BE BETTER, and that my stuff costs well over what he decided in advance what he "wants to' budget..

All very backwards thinking : I hain't never done this but I'm making BIG PLANS and I haz a BUDGET for what I want to spend (which has no relationship to anything)"

The Hotbitch would be a complete waste of money..

Therefore this guy will PROBABLY do it.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Thomas Kimsey
Thomas Kimsey
Senior Moderator
Location: Rochester, New Hampshire
Join Date: 10/05/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 271

Rally Car:
1988 XRatty


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 02:42PM
A car just competed NEFR on off the shelf Bilstein HDs with two rallysprints and two rallycrosses on them and the suspension is still fine.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DexterVW
David Baker
Professional Moderator
Location: Rhode my Island
Join Date: 11/20/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 290

Rally Car:
95 GTI TDI


Re: Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class
July 20, 2016 02:52PM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
A car just competed NEFR on off the shelf Bilstein HDs with two rallysprints and two rallycrosses on them and the suspension is still fine.

Even with a crash that tore the trans mounts off and almost burning up on the trailer.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login