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New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information

Posted by loifs8 
dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 13, 2016 09:07PM
I'm jealous of your CATIA. I've been looking for something I can make drawings with at home...
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loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
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2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 13, 2016 09:44PM
Quote
dunhamr1
I'm jealous of your CATIA. I've been looking for something I can make drawings with at home...
Perks of working for an aerospace company!
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dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 13, 2016 10:31PM
Hmm I guess I could do it at work... V6 baby! Then they technically own the content because it was created on their computer system. Plus V6 is PLM based so you can't really save locally... Maybe I'm just paranoid?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2016 10:41PM by dunhamr1.
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loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
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2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 13, 2016 10:50PM
Quote
dunhamr1
Hmm I guess I could do it at work... V6 baby! Then they technically own the content because it was created on their computer system. Plus V6 is PLM based so you can't really save locally... Maybe I'm just paranoid?

Paranoid? ... Maybe, it would be their content....( Just leave enough out that it doesn't work) We are still V5 so I can save as locally .....
I should add it's more of a cartoon since I didn't spend much time on the assembly model at all(especially with out dimensions... Yet)

Question: wouldn't it be neat to see the kinematic with actual spring rates? Before and after too...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2016 10:51PM by loifs8.
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dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Location: Hurst, TX
Join Date: 09/17/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 141

Rally Car:
1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 13, 2016 11:53PM
If you've got the right workbench you can do kinematics. Depends on what the company pays for. You might see if you've got the DMU Kinematics workbench? Basically no one uses V6, and it functions about 80% the same for the user but the back end is totally different.

Nah not paranoid about them owning the designs, just about being non-productive. Using company resources for personal means is frowned upon.

Any who enough derailing. Dimensions make things fit, good luck!
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 14, 2016 08:28AM
Quote
loifs8
So I made a couple Catia drawings today (one front and one rear). Hopefully I can get dimensions this weekend for the setup I have now so we can go about getting the 'right' setup. ( without over thinking it mind you)

John, what dimensions should I be looking to get? Whom can make something for this application?

We just got a new catia---well a kittenia..It is so cutia and it purrsia..

Dimensions: total weight, front half weight, rear half weight...

Then position of shock/and or sprang thang on whatever it sits on view from side view (looking straight down the axis it pivots on) and length overall

You could say what the angle of the strut from vertical is but maybe hooey cause its probably more or less like any other strut car ie somewhere around 12-17 degrees.

Length of strut from middle of bottom hole to where it hits the body shell (underside of top mount)

EDIT: and stroke of unit

Who could do this? You could call the resident suspension experts: Morrison aka "Not trolling" or Grant Hughes. eye rolling smiley

OR

Google "JVAB Sooper Bitchin Suspension" under images..Or just JVAB...

Then call...phone number is right there for that very reason.

We can talk about the philosophical underpinnings and Catholicism vs Protestantism role in conceptualising and problem solving and the Way to real enlightenment, which ultimately is the whole point of what we're doing.. Like, .....wow,

EDIT: home now.. I have tea and ciggarettes so you could call now.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2016 08:50AM by john vanlandingham.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 14, 2016 09:28AM
What if you just want your car to be one with the road and flow down the gravel like water?



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 14, 2016 11:15AM
Quote
Pete
What if you just want your car to be one with the road and flow down the gravel like water?

Isn't that what we all want?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
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2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 12:08PM
John
Here are some initial measurements fully extended.
Front: total length ~22.5", spring perch to bottom of strut ~11.5", Diameter at the knuckle ~51 mm, lower control from knuckle to frame attach ~15.5.
Rear: total length ~18.5", top spring retainer to attach ~17", attach to bottom spring perch ~7 3/8"
(All of taken with a tape measure except the diameter at knuckle hence the approximations)
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 01:03PM
Quote
loifs8
John
Here are some initial measurements fully extended.
Front: total length ~22.5", spring perch to bottom of strut ~11.5", Diameter at the knuckle ~51 mm, lower control from knuckle to frame attach ~15.5.
Rear: total length ~18.5", top spring retainer to attach ~17", attach to bottom spring perch ~7 3/8"
(All of taken with a tape measure except the diameter at knuckle hence the approximations)

Fronts: OK that's in the range of normal fronts with 200mm travel

Rear: oh dear, thats short. Short LOA means short travel... Any chance of checking --with the hyper-accurate tape measure---the stroke apporox frontand rear..
Get a chance to look at top mountings F&R?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
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Location: Savannah, GA
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2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 04:52PM
Here are the front mounts. Bolt pattern is 4.6" x 3.9" x 4.6"
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loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
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2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 04:54PM
I'll try to get the stroke a little later this week.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 07:49PM
OK looks good on front top mounts..A real bearing (whew, wipe brow.)



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
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2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 08:19PM
I guess the question I have now is what can be done with the rear? The Ohlins r&t application for the Cooper (r56) which is 'supposed' to fit ( I have countryman r60 -- bigger) has 200mm front and 160 mm rear springs. So kinda falling inline with those dimensions not a rally stroke....
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 15, 2016 10:44PM
Quote
loifs8
I guess the question I have now is what can be done with the rear? The Ohlins r&t application for the Cooper (r56) which is 'supposed' to fit ( I have countryman r60 -- bigger) has 200mm front and 160 mm rear springs. So kinda falling inline with those dimensions not a rally stroke....

Well a 160mm spring you know is going to have something LESS than 160mm spring travel.

This calls for some studying.. What can the suspension accomodate?
What bumps into what first?
Does suspension angles go wonkier than apesh1t?

(although remember what I said about "average position"--once had a guy get all excited because is $4.95 plastic angle finder showed he got one degree positive when front wheels were in the air.. Couldn't convince him even with pretty piccies or Dubya Arsey cars had maybe 4-6 degrees POS when they were in the air, and that was the price for LONG travel---and when in the air who cares?)

Let's get those strokes nailed down.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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