Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information

Posted by loifs8 
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Super Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 19, 2016 10:00PM
12" of travel in a mini? That would be cool but the shocks would likely be laid on their side and some fancy ass double a-arms to work with them. Make the track about 12" wider and it might just work....



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2016 10:10PM by ElectroTech.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Attachments:
open | download - image.jpg (39.6 KB)
image.jpg
loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
Senior Moderator
Location: Savannah, GA
Join Date: 05/05/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 22

Rally Car:
2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 20, 2016 07:18PM
John
I measured the front strut (w/o spring) with my very nears and trusty hyper accurate tape measure. Here is what I got: bottom mount diameter is 53.9 mm, bottom of strut to threads 21", threads are 1", there is a .75" transition to the strut piston shaft, from this transition to the spring perch is 9.25", spring perch to bottom is 11", piston length and stroke is 6.125" (no bump stop)

So, what do you think about my comment about the 2" spacers others are doing? My understanding is that this goes between the strut tower and top strut plate and only repositions the strut lower. ( I was looking at m7 speed r60 countryman lift kit at m7tuning.com- they have install instructions if you want to check).

If it only positions the strut lower, 1) I know the lower ctrl arm can travel at least that far 2) all systems work at that position (brake lines/pad sensors) so no modification

Can we then just add that 2"( or 1"winking smiley to the strut stroke with a longer strut? We would then get 6.125 + 2 = 8.125 (-bumpstop however). We would almost be at 8" travel then like you were thinking. Please correct me if I am wrong ( I may be over thinking instead of just doing!)

I will try to do the same with the rear strut when I can get a chance.

Wayne



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2016 08:15PM by loifs8.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
Senior Moderator
Location: Savannah, GA
Join Date: 05/05/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 22

Rally Car:
2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 20, 2016 07:22PM
Also, there are some Vorshilag camber plates that I could look into to shorten the pillow ball stack height, and we can gain there too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2016 07:48PM by loifs8.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 20, 2016 08:48PM
Quote
loifs8
John
I measured the front strut (w/o spring) with my very nears and trusty hyper accurate tape measure. Here is what I got: bottom mount diameter is 53.9 mm, bottom of strut to threads 21", threads are 1", there is a .75" transition to the strut piston shaft, from this transition to the spring perch is 9.25", spring perch to bottom is 11", piston length and stroke is 6.125" (no bump stop)

So, what do you think about my comment about the 2" spacers others are doing? My understanding is that this goes between the strut tower and top strut plate and only repositions the strut lower. ( I was looking at m7 speed r60 countryman lift kit at m7tuning.com- they have install instructions if you want to check).

If it only positions the strut lower, 1) I know the lower ctrl arm can travel at least that far 2) all systems work at that position (brake lines/pad sensors) so no modification

Can we then just add that 2"( or 1"winking smiley to the strut stroke with a longer strut? We would then get 6.125 + 2 = 8.125 (-bumpstop however). We would almost be at 8" travel then like you were thinking. Please correct me if I am wrong ( I may be over thinking instead of just doing!)

I will try to do the same with the rear strut when I can get a chance.

Wayne

All this very good..Thank you..And yeah maybe we can get roughly 8" without and major hacky hacky..
Hey whaddya 'spose the ID or the top mount bearing is---ya knowez the shaft probably just below end of thread..? Break out them very nears.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
Senior Moderator
Location: Savannah, GA
Join Date: 05/05/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 22

Rally Car:
2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 20, 2016 09:10PM
The very nears tell me it's 13.98-14.00 mm.
Front is looking much better than rears...
Wayne
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 21, 2016 12:44AM
Quote
loifs8
The very nears tell me it's 13.98-14.00 mm.
Front is looking much better than rears...
Wayne

Yeah front seems pretty conventional --aside from the damn Ford style "socket in and pinch" knuckle..

Rears..I'm going to make an effort to go see one of those in the flesh..

For poiki Markus, I know simple solution..called TOWERS cut and shut as the Pommies call it..
Cut a hole and shut the hole with a tower and weld.. You're rig is harder cause is a fun car, not a rally car..

Tea,
Cigarettes
Thinking



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sasquatch
Markus Saarinen
Elite Moderator
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: 06/07/2014
Posts: 9

Rally Car:
2003 Mini Cooper R50


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 21, 2016 01:51AM
That is "ihan jees". The rear tower heightening won't be an issue. I actually think that the rear is easier in a sense once you get the trailing arm swinging freely. The control arms and the rear beam set up should be easier to modify or replicate with longer travel adjustments than the front. I'll have to go look under an R60 as well to compare to the R50; figuring that the end solution will be scalable. Thanks so much, John. I'll start sorting out timing/budget (plus logistics) for this.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
Senior Moderator
Location: Savannah, GA
Join Date: 05/05/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 22

Rally Car:
2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 21, 2016 10:45PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

Rears..I'm going to make an effort to go see one of those in the flesh..

Should be able to get stock rear strut dims on Monday. If I can be any help to get better pics of the r60 don't hesitate to ask. I have the all4 version mind you, so I have to contend with driving the rear wheels too.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
Senior Moderator
Location: Savannah, GA
Join Date: 05/05/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 22

Rally Car:
2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 23, 2016 02:55PM
John,
Measured the stock rear strut today: overall length from centerline of mounting hole 20 3/4", mount hole dia. ~15.6 mm, centerline to bottom spring seat 7 3/8", spring seat to top strut cylinder 6 1/2", 1 1/4" of threads, bearing interface is 1" at dia ~9.9mm, piston stroke is 4 1/2"

Wayne
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 23, 2016 03:33PM
Quote
loifs8
John,
Measured the stock rear strut today: overall length from centerline of mounting hole 20 3/4", mount hole dia. ~15.6 mm, centerline to bottom spring seat 7 3/8", spring seat to top strut cylinder 6 1/2", 1 1/4" of threads, bearing interface is 1" at dia ~9.9mm, piston stroke is 4 1/2"

Wayne

Ok..
(gag!!!!)
Sounds uh, er (choke-gag!) sounds OK..

Marvelous (fawk me woe is we's)



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
loifs8
Wayne Iwanski
Senior Moderator
Location: Savannah, GA
Join Date: 05/05/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 22

Rally Car:
2011 MINI Countryman S All4


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 24, 2016 05:23PM
So now that all the fawking, choking and gagging is done ( or maybe there still is some) (haha grinning smiley) where do we go from here? Seems like the R60 OEM is about the same as Markus has with the current setup.

Markus, how much did you increase travel from OEM? I thought you wrote 3" OEM to 4.5" current for the rear of your R50. I didn't see what you increased for the front.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2016 06:32PM by loifs8.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sasquatch
Markus Saarinen
Elite Moderator
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: 06/07/2014
Posts: 9

Rally Car:
2003 Mini Cooper R50


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 24, 2016 07:25PM
Front is now ~6.5". I think that a bit more is possible with some simple mods (raise towers and make arms flop vs. limit droop with the current ridiculous hinges), but Reiger designed these to work with stock drive shafts and in an off-nominal-center position when car is on ground in neutral position.

-Markus
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 24, 2016 08:28PM
Quote
Sasquatch
Front is now ~6.5". I think that a bit more is possible with some simple mods (raise towers and make arms flop vs. limit droop with the current ridiculous hinges), but Reiger designed these to work with stock drive shafts and in an off-nominal-center position when car is on ground in neutral position.

-Markus

OK Both yous guys...somebody (hey poiki you get the paska jobb) needs to clean up spotless a half shaft and assemble mit ohne gummi balg so we can cycle the strut and watch the cage and the balls... Here's the thing..The Saksalainen are very dogmatic people when it comes to engineering, they often do things co-operatively zwissen supplier and the OEM..like they do just a couple of bolt circles on CVs since that seems to cover it and all the CVs come from one place.. Release bearings seem to do a lotta interchange cause I think they have one or 2 sizes where the ausruckerlager hits the fingers of the kupplung...
And they were big on that Ein Volk, ein Reich ein... well you know..

What I am saying is although we must always keep our politics progressive (to avoid that error ein volk! ein Reich ein...blunder that they, so culturally like us did not so long ago) I try and keep builds conservative..
To wit..VW Golf comes stock with cirka 160mm travel..I usually deliver 40mm stuff at 190mm travel and the 50s are at knapp 200mm..
No problems with CV pulling apart or jerking the centers out..

So maybe the CV can do that..we should look at them and cycle the stut with no boot in place...

viiiituun job cleaning one but what are we gonna do..

Im hinten...we have to look as real car. Would be nice to match.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sasquatch
Markus Saarinen
Elite Moderator
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: 06/07/2014
Posts: 9

Rally Car:
2003 Mini Cooper R50


Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 26, 2016 03:09AM
Ei tarvitse...mulla on uusi kappale. No need to clean anything. I have a brand-new axle that was never used and that I don't need anymore since now we have a new transmission with custom axles. Will send it to you, John. I'll be out of the country on travel through the holiday, but will send it upon my return next week.

-Markus
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: New to rallying. Hoping to get valuable suspension information
May 26, 2016 10:16AM
Quote
Sasquatch
Ei tarvitse...mulla on uusi kappale. No need to clean anything. I have a brand-new axle that was never used and that I don't need anymore since now we have a new transmission with custom axles. Will send it to you, John. I'll be out of the country on travel through the holiday, but will send it upon my return next week.

-Markus

Don't send it to me, poiki. I don't have one of diese schrotwagen...
Send it to Wayne!



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login