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gear ratio input

Posted by urr 
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
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1992 Golf


Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 02:27PM
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john vanlandingham
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ElectroTech
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john vanlandingham
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ElectroTech
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Aaron Luptak
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urr
Anyone know the ratios in the R2's?

(From http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,83097,page=2 - link to the PDF is broken, I think I have a copy floating around somewhere)

Quote
Aaron Luptak
so, did some digging and found this - http://www.teamfloral.be/media/fiestaR2/05_Sadev_Gearbox_Manual.pdf - claims to be the Sadev Manual for the R2 gearbox (at least as of 2009, no idea if they've made any changes since then).

The part that I was really looking for - gear ratios:
(tooth counts from the pdf, ratios calc'ed by myself)
1) 36/12 3:1
2) 34/16 2.125:1
3) 28/17 1.647:1
4) 27/20 1.35:1
5) 24/21 1.142:1

FD Options
54/13 4.154:1
53/12 4.417:1
57/12 4.75:1
Gadzukes, someone call MSport, their car only does 101 mph they are never going to win anything. I mean the R2 Fiesta is so special in every other respect that it somehow makes up for the wrong gearing, how can it not go 120 it's unfathomable.......

Predictably about 15.5 mph per 1000 in top gear..
Add 1 more thousand Are Pea Ems, silly goose.
She only goes 6500........as per dem who makes it!
What? da fuq? The street car? the Wawwy caw? A modern 1600 that only does 6500?
1.zero liter 3 holes, eeeeeeeekogoosed



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
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Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
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Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 02:28PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
She only goes 6500........as per dem who makes it!
What? da fuq? The street car? the Wawwy caw? A modern 1600 that only does 6500?

The "old" 1.6 n/a R2 lists 7500 rpm in its old sales documents: http://whm14.louhi.net/~fiestar2/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/R2_Sales_Document.pdf

The new 1.0 turbo R2 lists 6500: http://www.m-sport.co.uk/motorsport/rallying/m-sport-the-cars/fiesta-r2-details/technical-specification

No idea if they homologated new ratios for the 1.0t - the ones I listed have a 2009 date on them, so I assume they're for the old car.



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com
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john vanlandingham
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Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 03:04PM
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
Aaron Luptak
Quote
urr
Anyone know the ratios in the R2's?

(From http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,83097,page=2 - link to the PDF is broken, I think I have a copy floating around somewhere)

Quote
Aaron Luptak
so, did some digging and found this - http://www.teamfloral.be/media/fiestaR2/05_Sadev_Gearbox_Manual.pdf - claims to be the Sadev Manual for the R2 gearbox (at least as of 2009, no idea if they've made any changes since then).

The part that I was really looking for - gear ratios:
(tooth counts from the pdf, ratios calc'ed by myself)
1) 36/12 3:1
2) 34/16 2.125:1
3) 28/17 1.647:1
4) 27/20 1.35:1
5) 24/21 1.142:1

FD Options
54/13 4.154:1
53/12 4.417:1
57/12 4.75:1
Gadzukes, someone call MSport, their car only does 101 mph they are never going to win anything. I mean the R2 Fiesta is so special in every other respect that it somehow makes up for the wrong gearing, how can it not go 120 it's unfathomable.......

Predictably about 15.5 mph per 1000 in top gear..
Add 1 more thousand Are Pea Ems, silly goose.
She only goes 6500........as per dem who makes it!
What? da fuq? The street car? the Wawwy caw? A modern 1600 that only does 6500?
1.zero liter 3 holes, eeeeeeeekogoosed

Who da fug was talking about those things..Fuck me, mang...

Subject was dis dood with his turbo whatever Honda whaddnit?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Thomas Kimsey
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1988 XRatty


Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 03:06PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
Aaron Luptak
Quote
urr
Anyone know the ratios in the R2's?

(From http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,83097,page=2 - link to the PDF is broken, I think I have a copy floating around somewhere)

Quote
Aaron Luptak
so, did some digging and found this - http://www.teamfloral.be/media/fiestaR2/05_Sadev_Gearbox_Manual.pdf - claims to be the Sadev Manual for the R2 gearbox (at least as of 2009, no idea if they've made any changes since then).

The part that I was really looking for - gear ratios:
(tooth counts from the pdf, ratios calc'ed by myself)
1) 36/12 3:1
2) 34/16 2.125:1
3) 28/17 1.647:1
4) 27/20 1.35:1
5) 24/21 1.142:1

FD Options
54/13 4.154:1
53/12 4.417:1
57/12 4.75:1
Gadzukes, someone call MSport, their car only does 101 mph they are never going to win anything. I mean the R2 Fiesta is so special in every other respect that it somehow makes up for the wrong gearing, how can it not go 120 it's unfathomable.......

Predictably about 15.5 mph per 1000 in top gear..
Add 1 more thousand Are Pea Ems, silly goose.
She only goes 6500........as per dem who makes it!
What? da fuq? The street car? the Wawwy caw? A modern 1600 that only does 6500?

R2 is a 1.0L 3 cyl. They say it makes max power at 6,500. Can't find anything yet about max RPM.
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Erik Christiansen
Erik Christiansen
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Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 03:21PM
Quote
urr
Thanks....some good input. My numbers are based on a 7800 rpm and 25" tires (I ran 185's the last two events and moving to 195's going forward).

Ah, you are using circumference = pi * diameter in your calculations. But a tire will deform due to the weight of the car, and therefore the "rolling circumference" will be less than the actual circumference of the tire. Some manufacturers publish data for the rolling circumference (sometimes as "revolutions per mile" ). See if you can find that info for the tires you are running. For example, here is the data for Pirelli (page 9): https://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/pirellityre/fr/fr/catalogue/motorsport/pirelli_ms_rally_catalogue/original/pirelli_ms_rally_catalogue.pdf

Keep in mind Pirellis run big! A Pirelli 175/70R15 is much bigger than a DMack 175/70R15, both in width and diameter. So the rolling circumference dimensions in the link are only good for Pirelli tires.

This means your calculations may overestimate your top speed by a few mph. I would probably still stick with option #1 though. Is there a final drive option that falls between the ones you have listed?
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Aaron Luptak
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Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 03:27PM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
R2 is a 1.0L 3 cyl.

It should probably be pointed out that they only started homologating the 1l turbo R2 cars last year, but the 1.6 n/a R2 cars have been around since before 2010 - so saying "R2 is X" or "R2 is Y" is bound to be, at best, a generalization.

My bad for forgetting that Andrew's Honda is being force-fed. The 1.6 N/A Fiesta R2 ratios are the only R2 ratios I've been able to find online. I thought the Group N Fiesta ST whose ratios I posted was turbocharged, but digging some more it looks like that was a 2L n/a car.



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com
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ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
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Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: gear ratio input
May 26, 2016 05:28PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
Aaron Luptak
Quote
urr
Anyone know the ratios in the R2's?

(From http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,83097,page=2 - link to the PDF is broken, I think I have a copy floating around somewhere)

Quote
Aaron Luptak
so, did some digging and found this - http://www.teamfloral.be/media/fiestaR2/05_Sadev_Gearbox_Manual.pdf - claims to be the Sadev Manual for the R2 gearbox (at least as of 2009, no idea if they've made any changes since then).

The part that I was really looking for - gear ratios:
(tooth counts from the pdf, ratios calc'ed by myself)
1) 36/12 3:1
2) 34/16 2.125:1
3) 28/17 1.647:1
4) 27/20 1.35:1
5) 24/21 1.142:1

FD Options
54/13 4.154:1
53/12 4.417:1
57/12 4.75:1
Gadzukes, someone call MSport, their car only does 101 mph they are never going to win anything. I mean the R2 Fiesta is so special in every other respect that it somehow makes up for the wrong gearing, how can it not go 120 it's unfathomable.......

Predictably about 15.5 mph per 1000 in top gear..
Add 1 more thousand Are Pea Ems, silly goose.
She only goes 6500........as per dem who makes it!
What? da fuq? The street car? the Wawwy caw? A modern 1600 that only does 6500?
1.zero liter 3 holes, eeeeeeeekogoosed

Who da fug was talking about those things..Fuck me, mang...

Subject was dis dood with his turbo whatever Honda whaddnit?
Dat dood was the dood who aksed. As in he was asking about the hot new model on the block.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
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Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
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Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: gear ratio input
June 02, 2016 11:16AM
Direct from M-Sport Ratios as delivered to US soil R2 1.0l Turbo 3cyl Fiesta. The dyno plot falls off very sharp after 6500 due to turbo sizing and is unlikely to attain the 124mph top speed.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: gear ratio input
June 02, 2016 11:48AM
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
Aaron Luptak
Quote
urr
Anyone know the ratios in the R2's?

(From http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,83097,page=2 - link to the PDF is broken, I think I have a copy floating around somewhere)

Quote
Aaron Luptak
so, did some digging and found this - http://www.teamfloral.be/media/fiestaR2/05_Sadev_Gearbox_Manual.pdf - claims to be the Sadev Manual for the R2 gearbox (at least as of 2009, no idea if they've made any changes since then).

The part that I was really looking for - gear ratios:
(tooth counts from the pdf, ratios calc'ed by myself)
1) 36/12 3:1
2) 34/16 2.125:1
3) 28/17 1.647:1
4) 27/20 1.35:1
5) 24/21 1.142:1

FD Options
54/13 4.154:1
53/12 4.417:1
57/12 4.75:1
Gadzukes, someone call MSport, their car only does 101 mph they are never going to win anything. I mean the R2 Fiesta is so special in every other respect that it somehow makes up for the wrong gearing, how can it not go 120 it's unfathomable.......

Predictably about 15.5 mph per 1000 in top gear..
Add 1 more thousand Are Pea Ems, silly goose.
She only goes 6500........as per dem who makes it!
What? da fuq? The street car? the Wawwy caw? A modern 1600 that only does 6500?
1.zero liter 3 holes, eeeeeeeekogoosed

Who da fug was talking about those things..Fuck me, mang...

Subject was dis dood with his turbo whatever Honda whaddnit?
Dat dood was the dood who aksed. As in he was asking about the hot new model on the block.

Been thinking..Yeah dangerous i know so I try not to too much..
But all this yakity-yak has all been about ratios suitable for n.a.motors with peakier power delivery.
Shouldn't the Oh Pea with a turbo car be looking more at ratios known to work with turbo motors in rally use?
Seems logical to me..Broader spread and moar torques means no need for tight steps and short final drive that a little wheezy n.a. motor makes.
Yes?

Maybe look at the best 4wd turbo car, which is of course the Misterbitchy Evo 4-5-6-7-8???



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
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Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

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1992 Golf


Re: gear ratio input
June 02, 2016 12:14PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Been thinking..Yeah dangerous i know so I try not to too much..
But all this yakity-yak has all been about ratios suitable for n.a.motors with peakier power delivery.
Shouldn't the Oh Pea with a turbo car be looking more at ratios known to work with turbo motors in rally use?
Seems logical to me..Broader spread and moar torques means no need for tight steps and short final drive that a little wheezy n.a. motor makes.
Yes?

Maybe look at the best 4wd turbo car, which is of course the Misterbitchy Evo 4-5-6-7-8???
The post above is a turbo car making around the same HP as the OP, a turbo Honda doesn't make the broad power that the Mitsubishi does.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: gear ratio input
June 02, 2016 12:32PM
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Been thinking..Yeah dangerous i know so I try not to too much..
But all this yakity-yak has all been about ratios suitable for n.a.motors with peakier power delivery.
Shouldn't the Oh Pea with a turbo car be looking more at ratios known to work with turbo motors in rally use?
Seems logical to me..Broader spread and moar torques means no need for tight steps and short final drive that a little wheezy n.a. motor makes.
Yes?

Maybe look at the best 4wd turbo car, which is of course the Misterbitchy Evo 4-5-6-7-8???
The post above is a turbo car making around the same HP as the OP, a turbo Honda doesn't make the broad power that the Mitsubishi does.

Oh I think it makes more ft/lbs than a 1,0...

But we don't know...lots of talk but nearly zero information on peak torque at ????rpm and peak HP @????rpm or the curve it delivers.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Junior Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

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1992 Golf


Re: gear ratio input
June 02, 2016 12:43PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ElectroTech
Quote
john vanlandingham
Been thinking..Yeah dangerous i know so I try not to too much..
But all this yakity-yak has all been about ratios suitable for n.a.motors with peakier power delivery.
Shouldn't the Oh Pea with a turbo car be looking more at ratios known to work with turbo motors in rally use?
Seems logical to me..Broader spread and moar torques means no need for tight steps and short final drive that a little wheezy n.a. motor makes.
Yes?

Maybe look at the best 4wd turbo car, which is of course the Misterbitchy Evo 4-5-6-7-8???
The post above is a turbo car making around the same HP as the OP, a turbo Honda doesn't make the broad power that the Mitsubishi does.

Oh I think it makes more ft/lbs than a 1,0...

But we don't know...lots of talk but nearly zero information on peak torque at ????rpm and peak HP @????rpm or the curve it delivers.
These guys are quite forthright when they misinterpret a technical query for a sales opportunity...



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
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urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Re: gear ratio input
June 10, 2016 07:59PM
To close to loop, I went with the 4.357 FD. New trans is being build now and should arrive in a couple weeks. I updated my kaaz diff with slightly larger end washers and a set of thicker A plates....should be fun smiling smiley
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Snidewhips
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Re: gear ratio input
June 10, 2016 09:59PM
how much horsiuss and tqs that thing put down. my stock 4.4 with stock ls (1991) gear box was great all weekend, don't think this biyatch has the ponies to weld or diff it wothout burning clutches and causing mechanicals.
the ratio you're running is b16cable ish with kaaz which i've heard is good.



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urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Re: gear ratio input
June 11, 2016 03:06PM
around 250/200
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