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83 Volvo 244ti stage build

Posted by pat244ti 
pat244ti
Patrick Pieper
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83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 12, 2016 01:19PM
After looking for months at complete cars, mostly non Volvo, some Volvo [one infamous one in particular] I've decided to build a car from the ground up.

My friend Noah, who is partially responsible [along with watching John Lane's car in the early 2000's] for kickstarting my Volvo sickness of 13 years happened to have an 83 244ti that he was going to send to the junker soon. Ironically, my first Volvo - which I still have, 50+ Volvos later was an 83' 244ti. So all this seems kinda fitting.

I was going to find a 242, but I feel like 4 doors are more my thing, and if I bend the coachwork pieces are much more accessable. But I don't plan on that....at least I think I don't.

Noah pretty much gave me the car for free - he just wanted to keep the power window regulators for his wife's wagon, as well as the virgo wheels with good tires for his wife mobile which I was fine with that since they just had a baby boy 6 months ago - I gave him a bunch of cool Santa Cruz Skateboards baby clothes for giving me the car.




I met Al Kun [and a few other Volvo rally dudes] at the Olympus Rally in May when I was volunteering and we had been in talks about prepping a car.

So last weekend, which was really busy [I race two Volvo 240's in 24 hours of Lemons] I snuck down to grab the car so I could swing it over to Al's shop.

This past weekend I went up to Novato [2 hours from Santa Cruz] and was delighted to see Al had already started with test fitting parts of the cage. So I went all gung-ho and ripped the rest of the shite out of the car to make things easier for him


Found the drivers side firewall plate had cracked at the clutch cable.

Worked late into the night and decided to sleep in the car instead of my truck

I'll keep posting more updates. Hopefully I will be making more weekend trips up there to get it done fast. In the meantime, I can work on things like the wiring and the engine in the comfort of my own shop here in Santa Cruz.

As far as the engine goes, the K-Jet and 320k B21FT are leaving the car and LH 2.2 with a slightly worked B23FT will be going in it's place. I plan on putting a T5 in the car in place of the M46 as well, I have most of the parts but I kinda want to put a box together with all of the right gearing [as well as a good ring & pinion to match it]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2016 01:22PM by pat244ti.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 12, 2016 01:50PM
Radness!
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pat244ti
Patrick Pieper
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 16, 2016 11:46PM
Al sent a little update on the door bar mockup yesterday. Looking good. He did speak with a tech inspector in regards to the bar configuration and got it OK'ed. I think it's the best way to configure it to keep it strong and to allow easy entry & exit with the narrow door openings and my frame [6'5]



I've been mostly sick this week but I have started laying out the wiring harness from the car and thinning out stuff, as well as pulling the engine out for the car



I think this is the third car I have had plans to put this motor in. The last two attempts it never left the stand, third times a charm?

It's a B23FT bottom end with an RSI stage 1 head and cam. I have a B21F intake that has been modded for EFI & a 960 throttle body that will go on it. For a turbo I am planning on running a 16T & 90+. I think the 16T is plenty suitable for my power goals and with how quicky it spools I don't have much waiting around to do for boost in any gear.

Plan for fuel is to run 2.2 & 240T breakerless ignition. To sneak it though smog I'll be running the stock 240T K-Jet airbox without a fuel distributor on it and also have been thinking of picking up a stock looking intercooler [DO88 or an NPR]

For the trans I have a T5 and most of the bits for the swap all ready to go. I plan on opening up the T5 I have, because the tag on it says it's not a Z box but it has "Z" paint penned on some spots and a few scribes on it like it was rebuilt. I'll have to open it up and look because I want to have the right gearing in this thing. Still need to do more calculating but probably going to run something like a 4.30 R&P.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 17, 2016 10:56AM
Haha. We were talking about that door bar design just back in July. The conclusion I came to was that you should just leave them together all the way to avoid the small gussets and the minor trianglulation isn't doing much probably. Not that we did them, too far out of FIA rules for my comfort zone.



Grant Hughes
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 17, 2016 07:17PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Radness!

Thats exactly what I was thinking. F*&k yea about this build!
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Eric Ewert
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 19, 2016 12:10AM
Cool build! Granted I may be a bit biased.winking smiley Looks like you're speeding along. Are you going to do shock towers in the back?
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pat244ti
Patrick Pieper
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 19, 2016 09:15AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Cool build! Granted I may be a bit biased.winking smiley Looks like you're speeding along. Are you going to do shock towers in the back?

No plans as of now for it, maybe down the line we might add/tie a few more bars to the rear of the cage into some towers. Al has them on his car now and he said they did not make a giant difference. Coming from a dirt track background I can see the benefit of having nice adjustability though.

And also, your build was one of the reasons I decided to say F-it and just go with a 4 door chassis instead of continually being a holdout for a coupe smiling smiley



Went up and worked on the car today.



Almost the whole cage is mocked up and ready to be welded in



Proceeded to take all the bars out and went to removing the hump in the floor where the factory seats mount. My first time using a spot weld drill bit. Some of the angles can be a pain in the butt, but got it out after about an hour and a half later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2016 10:23AM by pat244ti.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 19, 2016 11:31AM
You are moving right along! As someone who's 6'6 and races in a Volvo, I think you'll be fine with the door bars. Getting through the front door opening will be a bit more difficult, but with a removable wheel it gets way easier. The blue rally car has plenty of room once you're sitting inside of it.... too bad you can't ever reach anything behind the seats. Stupid 2-doors.

As far as intercoolers go, the NPR one fits pretty well but it's about 3in shorter than stock and leaves a pretty big gap between the rad and intercooler. This could be solved with some good ducting. I have one in my DD and it works just fine at track days, but rally is way tougher from a heat management standpoint. Upside to the NPR IC is you can now buy new replacement intercoolers cheaper than a used one on ebay. They also come in different sizes, so make sure you check the measurements first!
The DO88 intercooler is nice, but they cost real money ($500). KL racing has a knock-off one that's about $275, but then there's shipping on top of that. Doesn't Al have a GIANT ebay intercooler floating around somewhere?
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pat244ti
Patrick Pieper
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 19, 2016 11:52AM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
s far as intercoolers go, the NPR one fits pretty well but it's about 3in shorter than stock and leaves a pretty big gap between the rad and intercooler. This could be solved with some good ducting. I have one in my DD and it works just fine at track days, but rally is way tougher from a heat management standpoint. Upside to the NPR IC is you can now buy new replacement intercoolers cheaper than a used one on ebay. They also come in different sizes, so make sure you check the measurements first!
The DO88 intercooler is nice, but they cost real money ($500). KL racing has a knock-off one that's about $275, but then there's shipping on top of that. Doesn't Al have a GIANT ebay intercooler floating around somewhere?

I'm mostly trying to be stealth with smog [even though I have a guy who lets me fly with LH swaps] incase I get pulled over, and I am trying to keep shiny objects to a mininum. Leaning towards the NPR with a quick black spray job to the end tanks for my budget still.

I saw Al's big ol intercooler sitting in the rafters yesterday. I have one on my Lemons car [picture below a few weekends ago, had a good battle with that 951]- used them on other cars before too, they work freaking awesome, but they do require some cutting and pipe making, something I'm okay with, but again trying to minimize giveaways for smog nazis

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john vanlandingham
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 19, 2016 02:52PM
Pat, re Alperti's statement about towers-----and the attendant long travel coilovers..

Which he has had on the car from day 1.

How does he know they don't make that much difference? Since that's all he has rallied with?..

He's a scientists and should know you need a base-line...someplace to start before a change is judged one way or the other.

Better compared to what?

You evidently want to believe whatever and whoever, don't believe me..even though his stuff I made..

Look beyond forums with happy and only 1/2 or 1/4 educated guys in this field..
Look at the most successful RWD in human history: Escort in Group 4 spec.

What makes it a Group 4 spec car--capable of winning to this day?
What's different from a Group 1 or Group 2 spec? aside from 200-255 hp---or maybe because of 200 to 255hp..

Towers and long links

Look at GpB Celica

Link boxes--and that's the way I make them--kinda what I call "Shoe box" design cause I don't have a brake to fold and bend--


And towers:


And long travel 50mm Bilsteins




And engine mounts going to chassi rail:


Simple mounts off the engine--as we al know a chronic problem on even road car volvos



And what do you see in the LAST ever decently successful RWD car in all WRC history?

Same---only by then the tower is already incorporated into the shell--so no addition needed..




It seems to me that the addition of towers---and long links to slow down the arcs suspension moves in---is a well establish normal thing to do when and if the rules allow it..And hardly more work at the build stage ---and certainly less work at build stage than later..
Long travel and super easy spring choice and spring change is advantageous enough to make it a worthwhile thing..Travel= grip...

ALL the guys with Corolla who did towers and links ALL loved how the car works...
40+ years of Escorts and their results points to its advantages.
Travel = grip...

There's the insanely overpowered V6 up here and it runs shock and spring in normal position and he has to back off 2-3 times out of corners because of lack of grip....(and while everybody is all agog out of the power---and reliability of that engine--which I supplied the internals for---if one does the math for the output times reduction in the box and reduction in final drive, it is not insanely more that what a sane person can do in a Redblock...530 ft/lbs x 2.2 first x 3.08 axle= 3591 ft/lbs to the ground is first.. 280 ft/lbs x 2.95 x 4.3 axle = 3352 ft/lbs....In top 500 ft/lbs x 1:1 box x 3.08 axle = 1632.4 ft/lbs to the ground versus 280 ft/lbs x 1204 ft/lbs down the insane thing having about 25% more ft/lbs in 4th....but at a 450lb more weight...)

Point is not DRASTICALLY more power at maximum and lots of problems with grip..
Grip is your friend and its easier to get grip with easier shock set up..

Do what you want but think ahead and look what other cars did when they went higher power...
EVERYBODY did something like this if and when the rules allowed...

And if you are thinking you might wonder "Why does John push this (old well established and proven idea) idea so much? Its a natural question..



John Vanlandingham
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pat244ti
Patrick Pieper
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 20, 2016 08:13AM
John I believe you. I think Al has a better understanding of my current goals in relation to the my budget I am working with for building the car (at the present moment which is very low) which is why he expressed that opinion.

I already mentioned it's something down the line I am definitely considering especially after I prove to myself I can finish a few rallies like however many countless folks have with the factory 240 rear suspension configuration.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2016 08:15AM by pat244ti.
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Eric Ewert
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 20, 2016 11:48PM
Quote
pat244ti

And also, your build was one of the reasons I decided to say F-it and just go with a 4 door chassis instead of continually being a holdout for a coupe smiling smiley

Good call. As I proved very quickly you can plan all you want on not wadding it up... however for me that grand idea went out the window at event number 2. eye rolling smiley You can always find a two door for car number 2!

As far as the rear shock towers/ long 4 link go, John obviously pushes them pretty hard. There is a good reason for it, however if higher end rear shocks are not in your budget for now then it is what it is. (before you write the idea off at least get a quote on just rear suspension if you haven't already) Obviously the fabrication aspect is not what is holding you back. Ultimately they can be added down the road. That being said a few things to ponder...

-its going to be a bigger pain down the road; ideally you want to tie the cage into the tops of the towers to help keep them nice and sturdy.
- you don't need to do the aftermarket 4 link stuff at the same time, and it can be easily added after if wanted. I drove mine around for a fair amount of time with added shock towers and the stock 4 link and it worked very well. In my humble opinion the towers were the bigger difference vs adding the long 4 links.

Anyway with that now thoroughly beaten to death keep it up! Great progess so far. thumbs up
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john vanlandingham
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 21, 2016 01:09AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Quote
pat244ti

And also, your build was one of the reasons I decided to say F-it and just go with a 4 door chassis instead of continually being a holdout for a coupe smiling smiley

Good call. As I proved very quickly you can plan all you want on not wadding it up... however for me that grand idea went out the window at event number 2. eye rolling smiley You can always find a two door for car number 2!

As far as the rear shock towers/ long 4 link go, John obviously pushes them pretty hard. There is a good reason for it, however if higher end rear shocks are not in your budget for now then it is what it is. (before you write the idea off at least get a quote on just rear suspension if you haven't already) Obviously the fabrication aspect is not what is holding you back. Ultimately they can be added down the road. That being said a few things to ponder...

-its going to be a bigger pain down the road; ideally you want to tie the cage into the tops of the towers to help keep them nice and sturdy.
- you don't need to do the aftermarket 4 link stuff at the same time, and it can be easily added after if wanted. I drove mine around for a fair amount of time with added shock towers and the stock 4 link and it worked very well. In my humble opinion the towers were the bigger difference vs adding the long 4 links.

Anyway with that now thoroughly beaten to death keep it up! Great progess so far. thumbs up


That's the thing, there's like $30 difference in the price of the basic shocks..and that's made up by the ease of spring selection..(maybe the cost is in FAVOR of the long thangs cause they are delivered with the valving needed------see I don't know why guys resist so hard and same time don't think step-by-step thru to a conclusion...Pat says correctly "Like countless folks have done ..with stock configuration" well where? Norway-Sweden above all-Finland..Where already valved for gravel shocks are a phone call away..As are springs. But those rally valved shocks, even the ubiquitous Bilsteins cost twice THERE what the long ready to go coilovers I supply cost..Cost here for the basic B46-xxxx is whatever.
.but revalving it to what is right is an additional $100-130 depending each (never know with San Diego, but sometime revalving of a new shock at time of purchase is less than the $130 "normal service/revalve)..so now this "easy" method is a couple of hundred MORE for something that really has no advantages....

See the dilemma?


I DO have some adjustable seat things that CAN work with springs in the original position..and they're like $35 each... so you see the actual COST differential is the price of some 12 or whatever gauge 090" or .100" sheetmetal and a bit of fab work to form the towers..
Maybe these guys could be lucky and find some 5" diameter tube with .0876 to .100 wall?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 21, 2016 01:28AM
If you have the time and budget for it, towers and proper shocks are they way to go.
BUT, I wouldn't call it necessary. If the goal is to get on stage and have fun , stock rear suspension is fine. It's definitely not the limiting factor for a while...

The old blue rally brick is just finished it's 18th or 20th event running stock shocks and springs. New sedan springs ($55 for a set) and some Gabriel Ultra shocks from autozone ($60 for the pair). They've worked surprisingly well for 3 years. Well enough for multiple 2WD podiums with a 100hp 8v and k-jet.
Another data point is the Hardy's turbo Volvo. That thing's done a serious number of events (50+?) using stock rear suspension links and some revalved Bilsteins.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2016 01:54AM by Robert Culbertson.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 83 Volvo 244ti stage build
December 21, 2016 01:58AM
Oh! Since you're just about ready to start all the seam welding business, add some extra material onto the bottom frame rails where the trans crossmember bolts up. I had to do that recently because all of the weld nuts were ripping out. I just used some 1/8in thick x 2in wide strap... way over kill but it was in the shop.
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