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MK2 Front Motor mount??

Posted by SideburnsSteve 
DanielSL
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 12, 2017 09:09PM
Man, if there is one thing I am confident with, its engine swaps in early VW chassis. If that is a Mk. 3/4 2.0 ABA in a Mk. 2; that clearance is way, way too tight. Something is very askew in that there engine bay, my friend.
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Erik Christiansen
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 12, 2017 10:20PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey

GKN Lobro outer CVs are very hard to find for mk2/mk3 4-cyl in my experience.

Huh, I've never had a problem finding them. In fact, I just ordered a pair of GKN/Loebro outer CV joints from pelicanparts.com this past Sunday, arrived Tuesday.
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SideburnsSteve
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 06:34AM
Quote
DanielSL
Man, if there is one thing I am confident with, its engine swaps in early VW chassis. If that is a Mk. 3/4 2.0 ABA in a Mk. 2; that clearance is way, way too tight. Something is very askew in that there engine bay, my friend.

Ah crap. I've checked everything. Maybe the subframe is off....? Do you think it sits to high, or to far to the passenger side? Or both? Thanks for your help!
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DanielSL
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 07:10AM
Depending on the motor and trans mounts used, it could actually be both. It is definitely too far over to the side. When 2.0 ABA's first started becoming easy to source in the pick and pulls. we pulled a lot of 1.8 16v swaps from Mk. 1 & 2 chassis cars, and replaced them with the ABA set-up. It was better for low end torque, and this was better for autocross and hill-climbs. Of course, this was a decade or more before people even started talking about doing turbo kits on VW's. God, I'm old. It would be easy for you to section it, and weld in a boxed reinforcement plate there, which would add a lot of clearance, but you would have to do it right to add strength instead of taking it away.
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ReluctantGolf
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 09:28AM
I am no expert in this area but if you are putting an ABA into a mk2 chassis, dont you have to use a VR6 corrado or early passat diesel subframe? I thought we had to use the ones that had the right connecting points into the body of the car that looked more like a letter "Y" (rather than the bent ~45degree angled end) but had the formed center cradle for the front mount? It looks like a mix of mk2 and corrado subframe. The part that connects to the body of car looks like a traditional mk2 subframe but the part where the front mount connects to is more like a cradle for the mount?

looks like this:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4494250-VR6-Front-Crossmember-question

I could be wrong but i think this is the one to use if you are putting that size block in a mk2 but i will let the experts chime in to confirm.
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DanielSL
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 10:04AM
I could not remember anything about a different subframs, so I called the shop that did my engine swap. They do different VW/Audi swaps at least once or more a month. This is the info I got.

2.0 ABA into a Mk. 2 chassis;

Use standard Mk. 2 subframe.
Standard front crossmember.
1.8 8-Valve motor mounts.
Transmission mount to trans code you are installing, (020 stays 020, and 02A stays 02A).
At that point, direct bolt in.
Make sure trans mount has "cup" to go into recess in subframe.
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 11:21AM
Quote
SideburnsSteve
Took some pics. See if I can load them on here...

So, are you guys saying that the engine is sitting to far to the passenger side? It's always sat here since the swap. You can see where it was hitting before when the front motor mount was breaking.

Steve, those pics look about right on the side-to-side issue. The PS pulley does extend slightly into the frame rail on every one I have seen. It does look a bit too close in the up-down orientation.

BTW, you can purchase the ABF PS pulley for the crank which is an under-drive pulley and it will give you a bit more clearance.



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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 11:57AM
Thanks again guys, really appreciate the help.

I am using the mk2 front cross member and mount, but I'm just wondering now if the front motor mount bracket itself is different between mk2 and 3? I'll check that also. I wanted to switch the the cross member that reluctantgolf mentioned, but I got bogged down in the swap of misinformation on vortex and gave up. That link helps tho! I think the angle difference you are referring to is regarding the mount bracket. The VR bracket Is on a way different angle. "Apparently" all the 4 cyl brackets are the same.

The mk2 and 3 K frame (subframe) are supposed to be almost identical except for the rear engine mount. I used the mk3 setup because it's apparently better...so they say. When I put a new oem rear engine mount in, that's when the engine when up that high. Perhaps there is a difference between mk2 and 3 in that regard.

So maybe with the engine being so high in the bay, and running mk3 vr6 springs (half coil cut) adding an extra inch in height....maybe my axles are extended to far?

Ok, got some stuff to check out this weekend!!

That's good to know about the ABF pulley Josh. I was considering buying the billet pulley from eurosport that under drives both belts. Dunno if it's a good idea to underdrive the water pump tho...

Cheers guys!!
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SideburnsSteve
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 12:13PM
Actually, that doesn't seem like to much angle...
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 12:38PM
I take back my comment on the PS pulley. The ABF pulley is smaller but it is ON the PS pump not the crank so it is an overdrive setup. The Eurosport under-drive pulleys on the crank are nice.



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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 07:56PM
I will throw out one only semi-substantiated piece of information the early Mk. 2's.

My dad had an early 85 GTI that ate three transmissions in three months from new; upon the third tow to the dealer they offered him an even swap on a Jetta GLI (hecho en Westen Deutschland), which ran beautifully for three years (despite the same dealer's incompetence causing the roof to be repainted from ball-peen hammers being used to replace rubber trim and two doors replaced from those off a new car on the lot when a tech crashed it). Then my dad traded it on an XR4Ti and caused a generation worth of pain and suffering at the hands of these finicky but oh so satisfying to drive cars....

It was said that the eventual culprit on the GTI was that something in the mounting system (engine/subframe/trans) was out by 1/2" on some of the early US-build Mk 2's. Everything would bolt together, but it wouldn't last.

I have no evidence of this other than hearsay from my dad through the local VW dealer, but it wouldn't surprise me if the PA line had an error....



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SideburnsSteve
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 13, 2017 08:55PM
Oh wow. That's not cool. I have had a lot of axle and tranny issues, but I mostly think it's cause I keep using garbage parts sad smiley gonna check everything one last time and try to find good axles.
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SideburnsSteve
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 14, 2017 05:31PM
Soooo, I figured out what the problem was. I feel a little stupid. Realized that the driveshafts were to short. Ugh sad smiley I bought them from a friend that assured me that they were for mk2. He said that they were from a scirocco, but it was the same as mk2. Not so. 1/2 inch shorter.

Well, this has been frustrating, but I've learned from it....so I guess it's all good. Thanks again guys for the advice. It did help me determine the problem in the end
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 14, 2017 06:05PM
Quote
SideburnsSteve
Soooo, I figured out what the problem was. I feel a little stupid. Realized that the driveshafts were to short. Ugh sad smiley I bought them from a friend that assured me that they were for mk2. He said that they were from a scirocco, but it was the same as mk2. Not so. 1/2 inch shorter.

Driveshaft"s"?

The long shaft is indeed slightly shorter on a Mk1 Golf / Rabbit / Rocco when compared to the Mk2 Golf shaft. But the short shafts are virtually identical length wise so that shouldn't really cause an issue.



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SideburnsSteve
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Re: MK2 Front Motor mount??
April 14, 2017 08:01PM
Oh ok, good to know. I pulled the shorter shaft right away cause of a brutal vibration. Didn't check the length. Put the old shaft back in and it was a bit better. I guess both these sirocco shafts are dicked now. Ah well.
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