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Another XR4T build

Posted by deaner 
dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Location: Dallas, TX
Join Date: 09/17/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 139

Rally Car:
1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: Another XR4T build
May 14, 2017 09:46PM
I've got an extra TPS or two kicking around, let me know and I can post it to you if you'd like. Otherwise Mr. Jeff at Merkur Midwest would be happy to oblige.
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deaner
Dane Aura
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Location: Caldwell, ID
Join Date: 07/07/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 337

Rally Car:
PS4 controller


Re: Another XR4T build
June 15, 2017 09:24PM
Quote
dunhamr1
I've got an extra TPS or two kicking around, let me know and I can post it to you if you'd like. Otherwise Mr. Jeff at Merkur Midwest would be happy to oblige.

Thanks! I appreciate the thought! I ended up finding a TPS in a bin of parts. Threw it in, set it and it seems to be working well.
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deaner
Dane Aura
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Location: Caldwell, ID
Join Date: 07/07/2013
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PS4 controller


Re: Another XR4T build
June 15, 2017 09:45PM
Not a ton to report. I was waiting on this rad/IC to become available before I took everything apart to wire in gauges, install oil cooler and delete a bunch of coolant lines. IC/rad setup showed up and I'm waiting on an auto Y hose to show up so I can tear everything apart and get some stuff installed. Also tinkered with the oil return off the turbo and came to the conclusion that the turbo needs a rebuild. Not sure if I mentioned my feeling on that prior or not. Anyhow, I cracked the return flange a little to create a tiny leak and the oily smoke dissipated. Should have a good turbo on in the next week or so.

After volunteering at the Idaho Rally last weekend the fire to get a car together is burning something fierce. This summer is shaping up to be a doozy in terms of just general family craziness but I'm planning on pushing the roller shell into the garage in the next couple of weeks to start prepping the chassis. After being slapped in the head( smiling smiley thanks AJ...) about the idea of just ragging my runner together enough to get on stage at the next years Idaho rally, I reckon I'll just tear down the roller completely and do it right. Brake/fuel lines inside the car, stitch weld chassis, decent brake setup, underbody protection, etc etc. I'm already leaps and bounds ahead of where I was around this time over a year ago with my Owwwwwdeee. I have a runner that I can get engine bugs worked out on while I prep a clean chassis over the next year. Game on.

Random and maybe dumb question.... Does seem sealer hold any strength structure wise? Like could I carve it all off, say months prior to cage work being done?
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MarkHille
Mark Hille
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Location: The hills of CT
Join Date: 10/04/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 134

Rally Car:
I have two crap boxes


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 07:21AM
So you went with the large IC. Lower intake temps are great but not as important as the coolant and oil temps. Also, that large IC may still heat sink quite a bit it may just take longer.

I am NOT saying don't use it! Try it out!

I am saying that the difference between boosting around for 5 minutes is a lot different than boosting around for 20 minutes. Monitor those coolant and oil temps!!!!! And be prepared to turn down the boost.
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deaner
Dane Aura
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Location: Caldwell, ID
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PS4 controller


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 08:38AM
Quote
MarkHille
So you went with the large IC. Lower intake temps are great but not as important as the coolant and oil temps. Also, that large IC may still heat sink quite a bit it may just take longer.

I am NOT saying don't use it! Try it out!

I am saying that the difference between boosting around for 5 minutes is a lot different than boosting around for 20 minutes. Monitor those coolant and oil temps!!!!! And be prepared to turn down the boost.

Yeah, it's bigger than what I was expecting. The kit used to stack the IC above the radiator. I didn't realize until it showed up how big it was and where it's placed. I'm not super pumped on it either but we'll go ahead and see what happens. I reckon it won't be too hard to go to a cossie IC should this yuuuge thing become a liability. Thanks for the insight Mark, it's def stuff for me to keep in mind.

I haven't researched yet but any megasquirt(microsquirt) guys know if you can set boost maps to lower boost based on engine temps? I've been on the fence on letting MS control boost vs a basic MBC. If I can set a boost limiter based on temps, I'll plan on wiring in a boost solenoid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2017 08:40AM by deaner.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Location: Portland , Or
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MK2 VW GTI



Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 09:14AM
They really upped the quality on the radiators. Dave got the stacked version about a year ago for the ecoboost xratty. It cooled well-ish, but the charge temps were high enough to put the car into limp mode.
The NPR intercooler (which is what you have) might cause cooling issues. Seal the intercooler to the radiator and add ducting going forward at the very least.
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MarkHille
Mark Hille
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I have two crap boxes


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 09:25AM
With MS3 I could do it electronically through map switching at a set temp point. It wouldn't necessarily be that pretty but it would work and be better than nothing. Not sure about microsquirt. I experimented with electronic boost control through MS. I never got the chance to try out the latest firmware before I decided that it definitely wasn't worth it for me. Tuning the boost maps were kind of a pain in the ass for a quick spooling small turbo. Never did get it perfect. The only time I would recommend MS controlling boost with the maps is if you were trying to limit boost early on to avoid surge on a super quick spooling setup which most people shouldn't have. A manual valve is simpler, easier, far less time consuming, much cheaper, etc, etc.....

With the MS3 I can run a solenoid off of a temp sensor and open the solenoid to bypass the MBC. This would divert the wastegate psi from whatever you had your MBC to whatever the actuator pressure was. For example: MBC =15psi; actuator = 10psi; Normal operation the boost was 15 psi. Temp goes to 250 and then the solenoid opens and the actuator sees all the boost pressure and opens at 10psi. Easy, cheap, and pretty fool proof. You might not be able to do that with microsquirt though. You could set up a manual switch to do something similar pretty easy though. Temp gets hot, you flip a switch, 15psi goes to 10psi. Otherwise just get under the hood and give it a few turns at the end of the stage to get ready for the next one.

Careful using silicone tube for the boost line. Some of that stuff melts really quick and I've had it pop off the actuator before. Another reason to open the hood after a stage that doesn't have a cool off drive. thumbs up smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2017 01:29PM by MarkHille.
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MarkHille
Mark Hille
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Location: The hills of CT
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I have two crap boxes


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 09:50AM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
They really upped the quality on the radiators. Dave got the stacked version about a year ago for the ecoboost xratty. It cooled well-ish, but the charge temps were high enough to put the car into limp mode.
The NPR intercooler (which is what you have) might cause cooling issues. Seal the intercooler to the radiator and add ducting going forward at the very least.

I would say at some boost level it definitely is going to cause an issue. The question is at what psi level is it going to be too hot. If I was going to bet I would bet 10psi is going to be ok. 15psi though.....it depends on how long he drives. I bet 20 minutes at 15psi is going to be too much. This is without seeing how efficient his oil cooling setup is though. That is going to make a big difference.
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dunhamr1
Ryan Dunham
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Location: Dallas, TX
Join Date: 09/17/2015
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Posts: 139

Rally Car:
1989 Merkur XR4Ti


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 10:39AM
Quote
MarkHille
Quote
Robert Culbertson
They really upped the quality on the radiators. Dave got the stacked version about a year ago for the ecoboost xratty. It cooled well-ish, but the charge temps were high enough to put the car into limp mode.
The NPR intercooler (which is what you have) might cause cooling issues. Seal the intercooler to the radiator and add ducting going forward at the very least.

I would say at some boost level it definitely is going to cause an issue. The question is at what psi level is it going to be too hot. If I was going to bet I would bet 10psi is going to be ok. 15psi though.....it depends on how long he drives. I bet 20 minutes at 15psi is going to be too much. This is without seeing how efficient his oil cooling setup is though. That is going to make a big difference.

Stock BCS would keep him closer to 15psi, wastegate pressure would be the ten. We can all profess about things but only testing will show how much boost is too much boost.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Location: Portland , Or
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MK2 VW GTI



Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 11:52AM
Quote
MarkHille
Another reason to open the hood after a stage that doesn't have a cool off drive. thumbs up smiley

All the cool kids just leave the hoods off nowadays.
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MarkHille
Mark Hille
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I have two crap boxes


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 01:20PM
Quote
dunhamr1
Stock BCS would keep him closer to 15psi, wastegate pressure would be the ten. We can all profess about things but only testing will show how much boost is too much boost.

This post is hard for me to read the meaning of. Did I over step my bounds by offering up guesses on the numbers I would expect from all of my testing and other rallyists I've talked to? I don't want to come across as some know it all cock hole that professes things because he knows everything.....I'm not a dick hole and I don't know everything. thumbs up smiley

This is going from memory but I think there was different boost levels and weird boost limiting shenanigans depending on if you had a manual or an automatic ecu. The automatic was lower I think. Anyway, you can't change the stock controller setting and an mbc is so cheap and proven.....I don't know why you wouldn't want to use one of those over the stock stuff.
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MarkHille
Mark Hille
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Location: The hills of CT
Join Date: 10/04/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 134

Rally Car:
I have two crap boxes


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 01:21PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Quote
MarkHille
Another reason to open the hood after a stage that doesn't have a cool off drive. thumbs up smiley

All the cool kids just leave the hoods off nowadays.

How else would everyone get to see all the killer modifications under there? hahaha
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deaner
Dane Aura
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Location: Caldwell, ID
Join Date: 07/07/2013
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PS4 controller


Re: Another XR4T build
June 16, 2017 05:28PM
Quote
MarkHille
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Quote
MarkHille
Another reason to open the hood after a stage that doesn't have a cool off drive. thumbs up smiley

All the cool kids just leave the hoods off nowadays.

How else would everyone get to see all the killer modifications under there? hahaha

Build thread on Rally Anarchy? smiling smiley
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Location: Pendleton OR
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88 Audi 80


Re: Another XR4T build
June 22, 2017 11:24PM
Quote
deaner


Random and maybe dumb question.... Does seem sealer hold any strength structure wise? Like could I carve it all off, say months prior to cage work being done?

Nope carve off anything you need to inside the car- keep your primer handy. Don't touch anything underneath the car unless you are going to strip it all off and paint right away (not that you need to). I love the harbor freight 15$ oscillating tool for removing sealer and sound deadening. Just get a flat blade and keep putting a fresh edge on it with your angle grinder. Keep some red duct tape around for any holes you find. Seals em up for rallyx and makes it easy to find em when you go to weld them all up.
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deaner
Dane Aura
Junior Moderator
Location: Caldwell, ID
Join Date: 07/07/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 337

Rally Car:
PS4 controller


Re: Another XR4T build
June 26, 2017 02:19PM
Quote
aj_johnson
Quote
deaner


Random and maybe dumb question.... Does seem sealer hold any strength structure wise? Like could I carve it all off, say months prior to cage work being done?

Nope carve off anything you need to inside the car- keep your primer handy. Don't touch anything underneath the car unless you are going to strip it all off and paint right away (not that you need to). I love the harbor freight 15$ oscillating tool for removing sealer and sound deadening. Just get a flat blade and keep putting a fresh edge on it with your angle grinder. Keep some red duct tape around for any holes you find. Seals em up for rallyx and makes it easy to find em when you go to weld them all up.

Good to know! Scraping all that crap out should keep me busy for awhile lol.
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