Engine pulling and Camshaft spec

I got the motor out, bought a set of torx, and started to disassemble.

I noticed that the balance shaft (the one not attached to the oil pump) has about 3/8" of free play. I'm not sure if that is significant ?

I took that timing chain off, and removed the cam.

The motor is still seized. I took off #1 and #2 mains. #3 was stuck, but was able to slightly wiggle it.

I've found scoring on the cylinders and bearing so far.

Not sure what all this means ?

I'm not sure... JVL could answer that better than me.

Looks like oil starvation but I gots to get touchy feely with them.

Morty, it seems like you will be learning how to rebuild an engine.
That also means we will have a 100 or more topics started, one for each component you pull out and start looking at.

Bring it on, NO FEAR !

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Maybe we should start a Morten sub-forum?

Did you ever swap the battery? (PS> I hate Torx for auto use. Fill with gunk and are worthless. Rule for building wooden fences and skateboard ramps though.)

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Grant Hughes

A sub forum ?

I'm not sure if I should feel priviledged or ridiculed ?

So I just won't feel anything, how's that Grant ? :-)

Here are a few questions and concerns : (please help)

The slop in the balance shaft :

I'm not sure if you guys remember or not but I was experiencing noise in the top end and had a thread going on ss.com. I had the valves checked and the adjustment was fine. The general consensus was that the 2.6 has a tendency to be noisy. Is it possible that the balance shaft bouncing around could have been causing valve train type noise ?

I've heard of people removing the balance shafts for motors. Any thoughts on this ?

Fork in the road :

I thoroughly like the concept of the motor, all the cool custom work, down draft carbs, 1 off header, etc... But I'm at the point now of having invested $5000 CAD into the motor ($2800USD + $1500CAD) and now having to rebuild it again.

What is the general consensus on the motor vs. newer technology, like swapping in a 2.0 DOHC Mitsu, Dodge 2.4, or ? I'll cost more than rebuilding what I have, but I can't afford to keep chucking money at the cool motor.

Your thoughts ?

Patience :

Thanks for your patience and welcoming of pics, questions, etc... It's been quite the last couple of weeks. Starting with changing a brake line for the first time in my life, to pulling and dis-assembling my motor.

If you're serious Mustafa, I'll bring it on.

It may take some patience from you guys because there's sure to be a few redundant questions.

It wasn't ridicule, but actually kind of an honest suggestion.

As for engines, you could go with a newer Mitsu injected engine but you'd have alot of harness, bellhousing, engine management, etc to deal with. We eliminate balance shafts in newer Mitsu motors (4G63, 4G61, A32, etc.) but couldn't tell you about on yours.

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Grant Hughes

Morty,

Removing the balance shaft is a no brainer in case of a 4G63 Mitsu ENGINE. However I don't know about your engine. In my book balance shafts are street sissies who bitch and moan about vibration. When I first bought my VR4 the balance shaft removal was SEMI-Performed by some brainiacs in Utard or Culorado I think they were called P.R.E. or some shit like that. they left one shaft in the block which ended up screwing things up and forcing me to re invent the wheel.

If I were you, I would not venture into getting another engine. I would fix the one I have if it is fixable. Whilst fixing it you will learn a ton and soon walk around giving advice to people. It is OK. it's only a side effect of rallying. Stop complaining about how much you are spending, you will not get any sympathy from any one of us. we have all been there done that.

However, give me a list of parts you need I will caheck with my parts guy and see if I can save you a few bucks.

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Morten,

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. Your photo's and comments do not yet show any need for an engine rebuild. FIRST you must find out what your problem was, THEN you fix it.

"Balance Saft Elimination" is commonly done on 2.0 and 2.6 SOHC Mitsubishi engines (G52b and G54b). It's cheap ($40.00 Kit) and easy to do. But their are concequences. They were designed-in to counterbalance Vibration! The bigger your displacement and the higher you rev your engine, the more engine vibration you'll get after removal. It's very noticable.

Rich Smith

Hey Musty,

I wasn't complaining about how much I've spent and it WASN'T directed at JVL, not in the least !!! I was just saying that sooner or later if there's a weakness in the 2.6 with the oil pump or otherwise... one has to cut his losses and go with a newer technology.

John was right when he first mentioned the car to me... It's simple ! Perhaps that's how most cars are ? I mean holy shit, I've just been undoing bolts. I recognize that assembly is going to be more difficult.

Do you suggest that I take the block, crank, pistons, rods (short block) to a machine shop and have the take it apart rather than me taking it apart and trying to get individual parts machines ?

Since I've got it apart and more than likely keeping this motor... Are there better than stock oil pumps and water pumps available ?

One of the balance shafts comes out of the back of the oil pump, so in eliminating both of the shafts, does one just cut that shaft from the oil pump ? Never mind... don't tell me, I'll take the oil pump apart and figure it out.

The cylinders are scorched, should it be possible to hone (from what you can see ?), and to what point can I reuse the pretty new forged pistons that JVL put in, can I get larger rings or is there a chance that I have to get new pistons too ?

Naturally now that I'm in the boat that I'm in, I would like to get more power out of it when it goes back together. So I'm looking at this as an educational practice, confidence building, and as a performance up grade !

Attitude is everything ! :-)

Thanks Rich !

Good points, I have been getting ahead of myself in taking it apart, it's a little daunting and hard to believe that I've dis-assembled into as many pieces as I have in a very short amount of time.

Is it best that I take the short block to a machine shop and have them take it apart and diagnose, or is it feesable for me to complete the tear down and post pictures here for advice and help ?

>
> Do you suggest that I take the block, crank,
> pistons, rods (short block) to a machine shop and
> have the take it apart rather than me taking it
> apart and trying to get individual parts machines
> ?

What makes you think you will need machining at this point ?

>
> Since I've got it apart and more than likely
> keeping this motor... Are there better than stock
> oil pumps and water pumps available ?

That I would not know.

>
> One of the balance shafts comes out of the back of
> the oil pump, so in eliminating both of the
> shafts, does one just cut that shaft from the oil
> pump ? Never mind... don't tell me, I'll take the
> oil pump apart and figure it out.

Some elimination kits come with the stubb you need to install inside the oil pump. Don't be affraid, it is not that difficult. If the kit you endup getting doesn't you will have to chop the tip of the balance shaft like an inch and a half or so and use it. Remember, use Loctite on the one and only bolt that holds it in place, there is nothing more frustrating than that little shit coming off and falling inside the oil pan and on the way getting stuck and/or banging around.

>
> The cylinders are scorched, should it be possible
> to hone (from what you can see ?), and to what
> point can I reuse the pretty new forged pistons
> that JVL put in, can I get larger rings or is
> there a chance that I have to get new pistons too
> ?


We need to see more pics.


> Attitude is everything ! :-)
>
And you are taking it like a champ.

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Cylinders look fine from what is seen so far.

You need to be extemely accurate what you call things. You said for example "one of the mains was stuck." and "I was able to rock it a bit"
To me that means "Morten was having problems pulling the main cap off"

A tap or two with a plastic or even har wood mallet should loosen it.

IF you have had any problems with the oiling, I repeat for the final time, I wonder if it could be related to that whacky Accusump" thing that somebody sold to Jim Thompson.

Also a note.
The way we phrase to stories we tell toOURSELVES is critical in how we view the world.
You repeatedly say you "spent $2400 for" a motor.
If you force yourself to be more accurate and say I spent $1400 to have the blown up motor repaired" and don't count the $1000 that you opted to pay to have somebody else, (me) do the re-install and all the hook ups and correct ONLY the most directly related and obvious problems, then you will feel a lot better.

It could very well be time for an oil pump, but we don't know, that hasn't been discussed a all.

Those old G52s are MASSIVE AND STOUT in everything. Now HAD the work order read "Do a Complete rebuild", I would have advised: new oil pump, oil pump chains, timing chain, guides, skids, new bore, new pistons. And eliminate balance shaft..
and that would have added an additional min $1000 or so.
Obviously you were not in the market to do a "full rebuild" at that time.

So as it satnds now, if you have the engine on a table on or a stand, and have two flywheel bolts screwed partially into the crank, and you place a lever between the two bolts, does it turn?
How many main caps are loosen. Were they loosen one at a time?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

"What makes you think you will need machining at this point ?"

It was just a guess, because of the scorching and the fact that the crank is seized... perhaps premature ? I'll stop doing that, and wait for your suggestions.

I'm learning reasonably quickly, but still sometimes the terminology of the components is lacking and my intuitive descriptions vague at best.

The "mains" I was refering to was when I flipped the motor over, and the "arch" with the 2 bolts that sandwich the crank to the block. So the term is the "caps" ?

The G52 is the 2.0L and the G54 is the 2.6L right ?

So in my case the crank is a G52 and block and head are a G54, is that correct ?

You're right there is an "Accusump" in the car that has a steel braided line from the air charged and oil filled reservoir. The line comes into the motor through an adapter plate that the oil filter screws onto. This plate is also the inlet for the oil cooler. I've had the valve on the accusump shut off all the time that I've had the car.

"How many main caps are loosen. Were they loosen one at a time?"

1,2,and 3 (3 being stuck). They were loosened one at a time, but remained loose as the subsequent one was loosened.

JVL, what are the rods from ?

I'm also learning that fine thread metric bolts are very difficult to find, I think the pitch on the ones that bolt the motor to the bell housing are 10 X 1.25 (if memory serves me correctly), so I couldn't bolt the motor to the stand with the absence of the bolts that I can't find in Vancouver.

I'll have to get to the flywheel next time I've got someone here to hold the motor, like tomorrow. My Dad just got out of the hospital from surgery, so I'm heading over to there place today. Sorry to keep you guys in suspense for the next steps on the ENGINE...

Is there anything specifically that you would like pictures of ?

You can't find metric bolts in Vancouver?

Surely you must have an equivalent of http://www.tacomascrew.com/

Look in the yellow pages under "Fasteners" maybe.

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www.rallyrace.net