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Lubrication and oil cooler

Posted by Morten 
Morten
Morten
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Rally Car:
1974 Dodge Colt



Lubrication and oil cooler
March 01, 2006 11:21PM
Since I have has metal circulate through my engine as a result of the failure, will there be bits of metal trapped in the oil cooler. If so, how is it possible to clean that out ?

How does oil travel within a motor ?

Does it go where there is the least resistance ?

I ask this because the oil cooler lines coming off the block are significantly larger in inside diameter that the lines within the block. Could this be a cause of occasional low oil pressure in my engine ?



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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 02, 2006 12:03AM
Morten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since I have has metal circulate through my engine
> as a result of the failure, will there be bits of
> metal trapped in the oil cooler. If so, how is it
> possible to clean that out ?

Just a thorough flushing.

> How does oil travel within a motor ?

The pump pumps it through the passages.

> Does it go where there is the least resistance ?

Yes, just like any hydraulic system. There's going to be a lot of resistance, though, because it's hard to pumo oil through little bearing clearances. The resistance is what causes the oil in the system to be under pressure. When you have little or no oil pressure is when you know that either the pump isn't pumping oil, or there's a gusher of an internal oil leak (or maybe a blown hose) bleeding it all off somewhere.

> I ask this because the oil cooler lines coming off
> the block are significantly larger in inside
> diameter that the lines within the block. Could
> this be a cause of occasional low oil pressure in
> my engine ?

Not at all.



T



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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JohnLane
John Lane
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 04, 2006 12:32PM
Morten PLEASE find yourself some good reading on how internal combustion engines work so that you don't need to be babysat through every last detail of your adventures with the rallycar.



JohnLane

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Morten
Morten
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 04, 2006 02:31PM
JohnLane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morten PLEASE find yourself some good reading on
> how internal combustion engines work so that you
> don't need to be babysat through every last detail
> of your adventures with the rallycar.
>
> JohnLane
>
> Overkill is consistently more fun

Mr. Lane, I have been reading a lot as well as doing what I've been critizized for in the past -> Instead of having others work on my car, I'm doing it myself and sometimes with the help of my friends.

Starting dialogue into what I thought may have been a cause of my low oil pressure - pressure drop due to the very large lines going to my oil cooler as opposed to the seemingly small ones that are within the block.

It seemed logical as did why the accusump may have been installed since the accusump inlet line is right beside the oil cooler line.

The concept of warm pieces of metal becoming lodged in the oil cooler since they were circulating in the oil when the failure occured, would seem like a given. But in asking I was asking what you do after a failure like mine ? Do you need a new cooler, can a flush get rid of the pieces, or does the oil cooler need to be heated before being flushed in order to dislodge the bits ? (if it's logical that there will be bits in the cooler)

I would have thought these to be legitimate questions for a newbie, and not ones that you feel that you're babysitting by me asking them.








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2006 02:54PM by Morten.
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JohnLane
John Lane
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 04, 2006 06:37PM
Some studying on your part will answer most of your questions before they get posted here......
Study how fluids make pressure and you will quickly see how it is that bigger sizes of lines for the Accusump or oil cooler are not able to make for lower pressure. Pressure happens when the volume of the fluid exceeds the leaks.

Do clean EVERYTHING out. Be damned sure that you get ALL of the parts of bearings out of there. *Hint: A hottank is not needed for this.



JohnLane

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Morten
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 04, 2006 07:28PM
Thanks John !

"Pressure happens when the volume of the fluid exceeds the leaks." I can understand that, but what about on start up... when the engine is building pressure, will the areas of the highest resistance not be the last areas to get lubricated ?

Hard to believe it's only been 3 weeks since I was affraid to change the brake flex line on the front caliper.

Thanks for your patience, and thanks to everyone for giving me the kick in the ass to wrench on the car myself.

Now it'll be interesting to see if my cam will like the zero decked pistons. From what I've read, in testing the camshaft in the engine. I ended up going with a grind that makes power 2800 - 6500 RPM.

Spread an even layer of plastersine on top of the number 1 piston
Bolt the head on with 4 bolts using the old compressed gasket

With the spark plugs out, turn the motor by hand to test for clearance by checking the impressions the valves left in the plastersine.

It sounds very "old school", am I reading the right information ?
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JohnLane
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 08:58AM
When you start it up it is not going to be BONE DRY on every surface that needs lubrication. One of the nice things about synthetic oil is that it will keep a film of oil on those things that need it. We use oil filters that have an anti-drainback valve in them so that all the oil will not be in the pan on startup.

You ARE using Mobil-1 are you not?

I dunno what happened with your little treasure, but I've never managed to have an oil-related failure oh........ever. Even in the Hornetkar that spent most of the last thirty or forty laps of the last event that the old engine did with the oil light winking at me cuz it was oh.....two or three quarts low due to it burning oil at about the same rate that it burned gas. Synthetic oils are our freind.



JohnLane

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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 11:19AM
All oils will keep a film of oil on the bearing surfaces, it's not just synthetics.

Granted synthetics won't burn up as quickly, but on the other hand how long does it take after startup for oil pressure to build? A second at the very most? BFD. Not going to hurt things one bit.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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Morten
Morten
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 01:59PM
I've always used non-synthetic in the Colt engine, because that's what it came with.

I couldn't see the oil being an attributing cause of this.

But is it the general consensus that when I'm finished assembling the new engine, that I use synthetic ?
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JohnLane
John Lane
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 02:28PM
I would break it in on standard oil and give it synthetic with the first oil change.



JohnLane

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Morten
Morten
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1974 Dodge Colt



Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 02:46PM
" I would break it in on standard oil and give it synthetic with the first oil change."

What weight of oil would you use to break it in ? 20W50, 10W30,... ?

I've never used synthetic before, after you drain out the convensional oil and change the filter, do you have to do anything else or is it okay for the residual convensional oil in the engine to mix with the synthetic ?
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Jens
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 03:57PM
Morten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What weight of oil would you use to break it in ?


Why don't you ask your new engine builder / machinist guy?

There are a number of factors that I use to determine what types of oil I use when breaking in a new engine. Since you're not willing to tell me the name of your machine shop, I'll keep that information to myself. Maybe JVL will help you; I won't.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2006 04:18PM by Jens.
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Morten
Morten
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Re: Lubrication and oil cooler
March 05, 2006 09:02PM
Jens jer er skideligeglad med din mening alligeveld !
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