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trans delimas, which one

Posted by rallysmurf 
rallysmurf
alex morgan
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Join Date: 01/25/2006
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Posts: 71

Rally Car:
'74 bmw 2325i



trans delimas, which one
March 03, 2006 09:24AM
I am real open to what kind of trans to get.
i am fabing a bmw bellhousing to fit and using
a hydrolic throwout bearing and making my flywheel
with a 4.5/5.5 tilton.

i have not got my clutch yet so any spline will work.

after scowering around looking at ratios and such
i would like ot get lucky and find a quaife 4sp rocket
for around 1500. but that is $500 for that my max.



A muncie m21 has close to the ratios i want.
2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00


http://i18.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/63/55/d1_12.JPG

doug nash 5 speed straight cut go for around 1k
3.25 2.07 1.53 1.24 1.00

http://i18.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/3f/5f/5c_12.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Doug-Nash-4-1-Drag-race-transmission-5-speed-proshifted_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33733QQitemZ8042220970QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW




__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2006 09:25AM by rallysmurf.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: trans delimas, which one
March 03, 2006 09:34AM
Burton Power in the UK has some cheapish Rocket straight cut boxes. (And a bell housing adapter to the Duratec motors, which is off subject but I had to point it out)



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2006 09:35AM by NoCoast.
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rallysmurf
alex morgan
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Join Date: 01/25/2006
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Posts: 71

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'74 bmw 2325i



Re: trans delimas, which one
March 04, 2006 02:33PM
NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Burton Power in the UK has some cheapish Rocket
> straight cut boxes. (And a bell housing adapter
> to the Duratec motors, which is off subject but I
> had to point it out)
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO
> Professional hand model
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Mar 3, 2006 by
> NoCoast.

i have a line on a jerico 4 speed thats need a input. which is good
b/c then i cen get what ever clutch i can find for cheep then match
the input to it.

there are a lot of jerico trans around from nascar.
i found this one off a GT1 forum.

http://www.gt1da.com/board/index.php?showforum=16

there is a guy in the springs that used one for the hillclimb series but want to
much for it.

http://www.chcaracing.com/classified.html









__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html
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Richard Miller
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Re: trans delimas, which one
March 05, 2006 05:12PM
Also call Taylor Racing Transmissions in Plano or Bobby Archer's German Auto Works in Fort Worth.



RichardM
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rallysmurf
alex morgan
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'74 bmw 2325i



what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 11:09AM
i was thinking starting with 2.0 in a 4 speed.

here are some pospular ratios.

what do you guys think?


http://www.needforspeed.co.uk/pages/sbv_pl.asp?CurCode=US&PartType=GBT01&Vehicle=UV___01

here is what jerico has


4 SPEED GEAR RATIO CHART
MD SET 29/20 28/20 29/21 28/21 27/21 27/22 26/22 26/23 25/23 25/24 24/24 24/25
MD RATIO 1.450 1.400 1.381 1.333 1.286 1.227 1.182 1.130 1.087 1.042 1.000 0.960
1st GEAR
34/15 3.287 3.173 3.130 3.022 2.914 2.782 2.679 2.562 2.464 2.361 2.267 2.176
33/15 3.190 3.080 3.038 2.933 2.829 2.700 2.600 2.487 2.391 2.292 2.200 2.112
34/16 3.081 2.975 2.935 2.833 2.732 2.608 2.511 2.402 2.310 2.214 2.125 2.040
33/17 2.815 2.718 2.681 2.588 2.496 2.382 2.294 2.194 2.110 2.022 1.941 1.864
32/18 2.578 2.489 2.455 2.370 2.286 2.182 2.101 2.010 1.932 1.852 1.778 1.707
31/18 2.497 2.411 2.378 2.296 2.214 2.114 2.035 1.947 1.872 1.794 1.722 1.653
32/19 2.442 2.358 2.326 2.246 2.165 2.067 1.990 1.904 1.831 1.754 1.684 1.617
31/19 2.366 2.284 2.253 2.175 2.098 2.002 1.928 1.844 1.773 1.700 1.632 1.566
30/20 2.175 2.100 2.071 2.000 1.929 1.841 1.773 1.696 1.630 1.563 1.500 1.440
30/21 2.071 2.000 1.973 1.905 1.837 1.753 1.688 1.615 1.553 1.488 1.429 1.371
2nd GEAR
29/20 2.103 2.030 2.002 1.933 1.864 1.780 1.714 1.639 1.576 1.510 1.450 1.392
28/20 2.030 1.960 1.933 1.867 1.800 1.718 1.655 1.583 1.522 1.458 1.400 1.344
29/21 2.002 1.933 1.907 1.841 1.776 1.695 1.632 1.561 1.501 1.438 1.381 1.326
28/21 1.933 1.867 1.841 1.778 1.714 1.636 1.576 1.507 1.449 1.389 1.333 1.280
27/21 1.864 1.800 1.776 1.714 1.653 1.578 1.519 1.453 1.398 1.339 1.286 1.234
27/22 1.780 1.718 1.695 1.636 1.578 1.506 1.450 1.387 1.334 1.278 1.227 1.178
3rd GEAR
26/22 1.714 1.655 1.632 1.576 1.519 1.450 1.397 1.336 1.285 1.231 1.182 1.135
26/23 1.639 1.583 1.561 1.507 1.453 1.387 1.336 1.278 1.229 1.178 1.130 1.085
25/23 1.576 1.522 1.501 1.449 1.398 1.334 1.285 1.229 1.181 1.132 1.087 1.043
25/24 1.510 1.458 1.438 1.389 1.339 1.278 1.231 1.178 1.132 1.085 1.042 1.000
24/24 1.450 1.400 1.381 1.333 1.286 1.227 1.182 1.130 1.087 1.042 1.000 0.960
24/25 1.392 1.344 1.326 1.280 1.234 1.178 1.135 1.085 1.043 1.000 0.960 0.922
23/25 1.334 1.288 1.270 1.227 1.183 1.129 1.087 1.040 1.000 0.958 0.920 0.883
23/36 1.283 1.238 1.222 1.179 1.137 1.086 1.045 1.000 0.962 0.921 0.885 0.849
4th GEAR
1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1 1 to 1




__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 11:58AM
What's your final drive going to be?



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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rallysmurf
alex morgan
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Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 12:15PM
i found a 4.27 with 14'' wheels.





__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 12:38PM
I'd narrow you choices to:
1st: 2.781, 2.681, 2.588, 2.464, 2.361
2nd: 1.714, 1.653
3rd: 1.381, 1.333
4th: 1

Another thing too, is where your optimum power band is going to be and what you plan on spinning to? Which I guess is important. I narrowed based upon common 4 speed rally gearboxes, but those are generally used on more pissed race motors

So why are you going with Jerico? I know nothing about them other than that some of the CHCA guys use them.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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rallysmurf
alex morgan
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'74 bmw 2325i



Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 01:02PM
the jerico is the cheepest straight cut dog engament 4 speed.
if i were in teh uk it would be quaife. in america gota go
with what there are a lot of. i found one for 1700.


my motor reds at 6k

128 hp @ 4800 RPM
170 lb-ft torque @ 3200 RPM

in stock form.

with my larger throtle body and intake from what i have read
it will be more like

180 hp @ 6000 RPM
190 lb-ft torque @ 3200 RPM

so you think first should be no lower than 2.3?

thanks alex





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to slalom.

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Scott Manley
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Re: trans delimas, which one
March 07, 2006 01:23PM
Alex- Why the expensive tranny? Or is that what it takes to get the gears you want? What not a T-5? A stock one would hold up forever at only 190lbs torque. BTW, don't believe everthing you read about bigger TBs and intakes. I would guess the Beemer is not that much different then 95% of the cars on the road and that one could reasonably expect an increase of maybe 5-10hp from those mods. But maybe BMW is special.



Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37
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rallysmurf
alex morgan
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Re: trans delimas, which one
March 07, 2006 01:37PM
well, my thought on the trans are it is worth that much
and if i change cars some day jericos hold there value.

it is very important to have a close ratio box.

i can't get a t5 that close fo that kind of money.

you mihgt be right on the HP. i am fig off the stock

amount to find my power band. like 3200-5000.

but i am sure there is a sweet spot in there that

lasts only 1000 rpms.

it does have larger 18lbs injectors and a bigger HFM.

alex




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i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html
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john vanlandingham
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Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 02:13PM
rallysmurf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the jerico is the cheepest straight cut dog
> engament 4 speed.
> if i were in teh uk it would be quaife.

Ugh.
Try Tran-X

in america
> gota go
> with what there are a lot of. i found one for
> 1700.

But only 4 speed.
>
>
> my motor reds at 6k
>
> 128 hp @ 4800 RPM
> 170 lb-ft torque @ 3200 RPM
>
> in stock form.
>
> with my larger throtle body and intake from what i
> have read
> it will be more like
>
> 180 hp @ 6000 RPM
> 190 lb-ft torque @ 3200 RPM

With that for power and the 4.27 final drive I'd say shoot for something lower, like 2,7.
but thats close enough to a T5 with the 2.95 that I'd say go for the T5 and have a 5th you could cruise out to the oilfields to.


Alex for a given powerband, and yours is deffo stock-ish, it's all about an interplay of box and axle.
If you motor makes LOTS of torque then the boxx and the axle doesn't have to be short and help as much, but your proposed motor is essentially stock-ish, not like a little 1600 16v, you very very likely don't have any need for a really close gearset.
A really close gearset is there to help keep the motor right in the powerbands sweet spot (and really close is like 2.3 for 1st and 1:1 4th or top, an ULREA close would be something with like 2.0 first/1 top)

It's kinda funny I suggest to you to make a smaller motor, make it hot, and that mandates a short final drive and somewhat close gears but you decided on a BIG Torque-monster and a moderate final drive but seem convinced you need close ratios.

I am not convinced you need a closer box than the "good" 2.95 T5.

(and to some degree that's considering the terrain you'll likely see---hell we barely climb anything here in WA eeven tho we're in the mountains usually)
>
> so you think first should be no lower than 2.3?

4.0:1 is low, 2.3:1 is high

a 5.1 final drive is low, a 3.36 final drive is high. Terminology, eh

Think about this, a T5 might cost you 350 to 700 for a 2.95 box, they go for 1100 new.

And you don't need dog box not for the low level we rally at.
>
> thanks alex
>
>
>
> __________________________
>
> i'm in texas panahndle,
> full of gas and oil wells
> to slalom.
>
>






John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 07, 2006 02:22PM
John just echoed kind of what I was going to say but hadn't typed yet. If your not going crazy on the motor and sticking to a stockish motor than you'd be fine with a stock T5 non-WC, which you can if you do in the future upgrade your motor to need the shorter ratios get a good dog gear kit from. And, there's lots of T5 cases all over the place for dirt cheap. I could probably find a T5 empty case locally in about 5 minutes for 100-150, and their made for big horsepower, which means it should last! A local school here is putting a Tremec in their road race 2002.



Grant Hughes
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Denver, CO
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Richard Miller
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Re: trans delimas, which one
March 07, 2006 03:08PM
I don't like the Jerico for rally use because it has external shift levers.



RichardM
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rallysmurf
alex morgan
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Re: what ratio should i get, i'm ordering soon.........
March 09, 2006 09:23PM
john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> With that for power and the 4.27 final drive I'd
> say shoot for something lower, like 2,7.
> but thats close enough to a T5 with the 2.95 that
> I'd say go for the T5 and have a 5th you could
> cruise out to the oilfields to.
>
>
> Alex for a given powerband, and yours is deffo
> stock-ish, it's all about an interplay of box and
> axle.
> If you motor makes LOTS of torque then the boxx
> and the axle doesn't have to be short and help as
> much, but your proposed motor is essentially
> stock-ish, not like a little 1600 16v, you very
> very likely don't have any need for a really close
> gearset.
> A really close gearset is there to help keep the
> motor right in the powerbands sweet spot (and
> really close is like 2.3 for 1st and 1:1 4th or
> top, an ULREA close would be something with like
> 2.0 first/1 top)
>
> It's kinda funny I suggest to you to make a
> smaller motor, make it hot, and that mandates a
> short final drive and somewhat close gears but you
> decided on a BIG Torque-monster and a moderate
> final drive but seem convinced you need close
> ratios.
>
> I am not convinced you need a closer box than the
> "good" 2.95 T5.
>

>
> Think about this, a T5 might cost you 350 to 700
> for a 2.95 box, they go for 1100 new.
>
> And you don't need dog box not for the low level
> we rally at.


http://fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php?MaxRPM=6000&TireDiameter=23.5&GearRatio1=1.93&GearRatio2=1.40&GearRatio3=1.13&GearRatio4=1&GearRatio5=&GearRatio6=&FinalDrive=4.27&TireWidth=195&TireAspect=55&RimDiameter=14&MaxRPM_2=6000&TireDiameter_2=23.5&GearRatio1_2=2.95&GearRatio2_2=1.94&GearRatio3_2=1.34&GearRatio4_2=1&GearRatio5_2=0.63&GearRatio6_2=0&FinalDrive_2=4.27&TireWidth_2=195&TireAspect_2=55&RimDiameter_2=15&Calculate=Calculate%2FGraph&Compare=1

here is a chart on the two options.

jerico striaght dogbox for 1800 shipped.

t5 striaght dogbox 2400.



update: who am i kidding.......... i could finish my car for 2k.

alex



__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2006 10:13AM by rallysmurf.
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