Programmable EFI anyone?

I just spoke with Jason from Merkurboys in Spokane. You may have heard JVL speak of someone using Dodge SMEC engine management as its speed/density. Well Jason's the guy and he's just had some special boards made for modifying stock Dodge ECU's to make them programmable. He's been doing this for awhile, now it just got way easier. The programming board replaces the stock eprom and allows a computer interface, I think, via a serial cable.

Why use a Dodge ECU as apposed to MegaSquirt?

The Dodge ECU's can be had for around $15 from any J/Y. And they are already
assembled. The computers are found in 88'and 89' turbo Dodge/Chryseler/Plymouth cars and vans of which they made millions.
It's easily programmed.

What's the catch?

One is that you still need a wiring harness. You can modify a stock Dodge harness and they're available at the J/Y where you get the ECU from. I've paid $15 for a complete harness and sensors.
The second thing is the Dodge ECU requires a distributor with two hall effect sensors, for phase I think. Several people have made hybrid distributors, but Jason hopes to have the code fixed soon so a standard Ford dis. would work.

I'll try to post more after I talk to Jason next.

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Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

Anti-Lag? :-)

John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

Yup! In the works. If it wasn't possible Jason would have moved on by now.

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Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

Sweet! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

What sort of adjustments can be made with this set up? I assume full fuel and ignition, but to what extent? (Considering I drive a Dodge-powered Talon and have a complete MSnS system ready to go in once the Galant is operational, this is somewhat interesting to hear.)

If this is truly going to be an easy install (especially for those of us already running Mopar equipment), I may be able to point a couple hundred people his way...

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Sorry Brian- Talon's are DSM and as far as I know didn't use Mopar electronics. The computers are called SMECs for Single Modual Engine Controller. Only found on 88' and 89' Dodge/Chryseller/Plymouth domestic cars. It's actually very simular to adapting a GM 749 computer. Simular hardware. Are there not already alternatives for the Mistu/Eagle croud?

One thing I forgot, in case you go reading about these elsewhere, the second hall effect in the dis. is for individual cyclinder knock detection. Which has been proven, in Fords at least, to be useless. So that's one feature that does get eliminated.

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Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

Color me interested.

I wonder what kind of RPM limitation the thing has. I had acquired a whole bunch of -730 stuff a while back, before I found out that they are hardware-limited to something stupid low like 6000ish.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Scott Manley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry Brian- Talon's are DSM and as far as I know
> didn't use Mopar electronics. . . . Are there not already
> alternatives for the Mistu/Eagle croud?
>
> One thing I forgot, in case you go reading about
> these elsewhere, the second hall effect in the
> dis. is for individual cyclinder knock detection.
> Which has been proven, in Fords at least, to be
> useless. So that's one feature that does get
> eliminated.

Well, to spare you all the technicalities of what is and what is not a DSM (in the purest sense of the term), the majority of all second generation DSMs sold were non-turbo like mine, which feature a Chrysler-made 420A engine similar to that found in the DOHC Neons. Main difference between the two is the direction in which the head flows. DSMs have the intake on the firewall-side, while Neons have it radiator-side. In essence, I drive a Neon with a Talon body kit on it. As such, I've got a MOPAR ECU in my car.

For comparisson:
420A
4G63

As for what else is available for the turbo DSMs, there is DSMlink, AEM EMS, and a growing Megasquirt following. All we've got for the NTs is the MSnS running hacked Neon code, but we've got all manner of options with it, so we're happy for the moment.

There was a time a while back when a group of us were experimenting with the OEM ECUs found in our cars in an effort to hack them. We got as far as locating the factory data tables and extracting the information in them before MSnS hit the market and we felt it was easier to just go MS. Ideally, we would have been able to hook up a logger/laptop to the scanport and re-flash the OEM ECU to do what we like, but it's just so much easier to go with the MS.

Now, if you're going to have to fab up some kind of crank trigger for the EDIS, Eddy Fierro (local guy who did all the port work on my Talon) fabbed up his own crank trigger so he could use the EDIS on his MSnS'd Neon. He's got a couple pictures of it (and the head on my Talon *wink*) up at the bottom of the page on his site.

Still, very interesting. I'm still going MSnS on the Talon and considering it for the Gaylant, but this is something that a number of regular street tuners might be interested in doing. I always like to send business in the direction of the little guy who's doing something good for the community, so long as it's delivered as promised. :thumbsup

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Pete- there is a limitation at the moment, I think, but I'm more then certain it can be overcome. And it's either somewhere in the upper 7k or low/mid 8k range, again I think, I don't know. I'll try and get Jason to come on over here and report.

Brian- If your car has a neon motor and Mopar electronics, then it should be an SBEC or SBEC II,III(Single Board Engine Controller - the main difference is that the ignition controls and the ECU are unified onto one board, whereas on the SMEC they are two seperate boards in the same box). Neil at www.ndperformance.com sells tunes for these, at least he used to before he switched to Ford. The Ford 2.3T is a much more robust engine to start with then the Dodge 2.2/2.5T. The code for those computers is a bit more complicated I'm told. It also does some fantastic stuff, most of which isn't really needed for our purposes.

There are already crank trigger setups for for the Fords, which this conversion is geared toward, though Jason did do a few computers that are running on some Pontiac Fieros for a local tuner.

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Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

I love this shit. ND lead me to FWD and now I'm back at the always reliable allpar doing some reading. Interesting the way some of this stuff excites you the second or third time you've gone over it. Keep us posted on this new project, Scott. It sounds like it's got some serious potential.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

But why ?????

Doesn't everybody have a Motec???????

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OK my back hurts an I am being an asshole. Fuck, I don't have a Motec.

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Damn you turks

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Finally got around to getting registered over here
For those that havent seen it, I have some general info about the Dodge stuff up at http://www.merkurboys.com/smec
The programmable bit that scott is talking about is already possible (and very cool), but requires a rather lengthy and involved session with a soldering iron to make happen. The new modules I am working on will make it easier to install, similar to the process required for removing the eprom and installing a socket.
I am not sure what else you might want to know, but am pretty knowledgable on these things so ask away.

Does the SMEC *have* to come from a turbocar?

I mean, if we're going to be reprogramming it anyway, why bother?

I ask because turbo Dodges from that timeframe are really hard to find around here, but you can still find an old Caravan here and there. Parts availability is a plus, having to buy used electronics sight unseen via mailorder, or an entire parts car just for the computer, is a minus.

Note that I am coming from the angle of just generically using the Chrysler computer as standalone engine management, not Ford 2.3 specific. Given the chance, I'd stuff it onto one of my rotaries, assuming a decent MAP reading could be achieved with four 48mm throttle bodies.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

yes, it has to be a 88-89 turbo vehicle. look at the vans though, i get most of mine from turbo caravans.
I would be surprised if it is adaptable to a rotary though, dont they have a weird distributor? i would also imagine you are gonna want more than the 8k or so rpm that the smec can do.