Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

Totally Tubular Honda part

Posted by SteelSolutions 
SteelSolutions
William Timmins
Senior Moderator
Location: Redmond WA
Join Date: 02/26/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 648

Rally Car:
3 xr4ti/74 capri/02 bug eye



Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 12:57AM
So hear is what i have been working on this last few days.
A tubular front sub frame for Honda's, This will be the hardest
one off projects to date and on a time crunch hope it works
as good as its looking. The arms sticking back and top 4
mounts are for the skid plate and mounts to the frame rails.


Please Login or Register to post a reply
BillyElliot
Billy Elliot Mann
Ultra Moderator
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Join Date: 08/11/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 557

Rally Car:
1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO!


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 10:23AM
What model/generation is this for? Doesn't look like an eg/ek to me. What's the weight compared to stock?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
gkd
George Doganis
Ultra Moderator
Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 94

Rally Car:
Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 12:55PM
William,

I have the same questions as Billy. If you made a front subframe for the 96-00 Civic that is lighter than stock, I would be first in line. I have had no issues with the stock front subframe(seam welded) on the 96-00 in about 10 rallies but it is heavy.

The Civic rear trailing arms are another worthwhile project. I have reinforced mine and they seem to work fine, but something even stronger and lighter would be nice.

George
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Super Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 01:06PM
Quote
gkd
William,

I have the same questions as Billy. If you made a front subframe for the 96-00 Civic that is lighter than stock, I would be first in line. I have had no issues with the stock front subframe(seam welded) on the 96-00 in about 10 rallies but it is heavy.

The Civic rear trailing arms are another worthwhile project. I have reinforced mine and they seem to work fine, but something even stronger and lighter would be nice.

George

George, can you take some piccies of the rear arms?
From outside the car, from under on the inside etc.

That's always a start.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
phlat65
Sean Medcroft
Elite Moderator
Location: Edmonds, Washington
Join Date: 02/12/2009
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 1,802

Rally Car:
Building a Merkur


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 01:41PM
Looking good William! He is going to be stoked.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
gkd
George Doganis
Ultra Moderator
Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 94

Rally Car:
Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 01:49PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

George, can you take some piccies of the rear arms?
From outside the car, from under on the inside etc.

That's always a start.

Will do.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
SteelSolutions
William Timmins
Senior Moderator
Location: Redmond WA
Join Date: 02/26/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 648

Rally Car:
3 xr4ti/74 capri/02 bug eye



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 02:56PM
um its pree 92 so from what it looks is they are not compatible dose any one know for sure?
money talks you get me 3 frames to do of the newer cars and we can talk $1800 for 3
and the rear tailing arms 3 sets of those and I will make them as well, no idea about price
they look like they are quit in depth.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
krisdahl
Kris Dahl
Professional Moderator
Location: Issaquah, WA
Join Date: 02/13/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 282

Rally Car:
Integra, Civic


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 03:56PM
Quote
gkd

The Civic rear trailing arms are another worthwhile project. I have reinforced mine and they seem to work fine, but something even stronger and lighter would be nice.

The rear trailing arms do fatigue at where the hub mounts. We treat them as a wear item.

The design is goofy as well, but figure it works well enough to keep the wheels rolling.

Haven't had issue with front subframe either, we run stock, unwelded.

On the very front we do use a custom crossmember that the skidplate mounts, and our tension/compression rod mounts on the Civic (Integra doesn't use t/c rods).
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
Super Moderator
Location: SLC
Join Date: 02/15/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 776

Rally Car:
Civic...



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 04:09PM
I assume that the black painted bit is the jig, and the raw piece (only in the third pic) is the work-in-progress subframe?

Wondering if this is designed for stock:
* rear motor/transmission mount?
* steering rack?
* sway bar?

92-95 (EG) & 96-00 (EK) are both pretty different from 88-91 (EF) - the EF had the radius rod setup coming back from underneath the radiator, whereas EG and EK had 'real' a-arms for the front LCA - I believe the 2nd mounting point on the arm is on that subframe as well. Steering racks mount differently too. Mounting points on the unibody MIGHT be the same (could maybe reuse the bottom half of your jig), but that's probably about it.

Definitely interested in seeing the final product!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
slidewayswrx
Patrick Darrow
Junior Moderator
Location: Portland OR
Join Date: 12/30/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 379

Rally Car:
Swedish John Deere



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 06:00PM
Quote
phlat65
Looking good William! He is going to be stoked.

Would it be safe to assume that I have reason to be stoked as well?

Mo mojo fo dojo?

William, looks great. Get in touch with me about what measurements you need for the ovlov.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
RallySol
Eric Larsen
Super Moderator
Location: San Mateo, CA
Join Date: 09/05/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 38

Rally Car:
awd '93 Honda del Sol



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 23, 2011 09:14PM
Well damn, I should have started on mine sooner. Looks good!



KK6EAR
Please Login or Register to post a reply
BillyElliot
Billy Elliot Mann
Ultra Moderator
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Join Date: 08/11/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 557

Rally Car:
1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO!


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 12:10AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
gkd
William,

I have the same questions as Billy. If you made a front subframe for the 96-00 Civic that is lighter than stock, I would be first in line. I have had no issues with the stock front subframe(seam welded) on the 96-00 in about 10 rallies but it is heavy.

The Civic rear trailing arms are another worthwhile project. I have reinforced mine and they seem to work fine, but something even stronger and lighter would be nice.

George

George, can you take some piccies of the rear arms?
From outside the car, from under on the inside etc.

That's always a start.

http://www.hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2724671 will have a lot of good pictures of them off the car.

Here's where the spindle mounts to the arm (torx screws and big nut)






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 12:12AM by BillyElliot.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
gkd
George Doganis
Ultra Moderator
Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 94

Rally Car:
Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 02:14AM
These pictures give an idea of how I reinforced my trailing arms(weigh about 18-19 lbs). After studying how these bend I determined that the top and bottom flanges spread apart and allow the beam to bend. The small tubes control the spreading. The top and bottom flanges were also reinforced. I also added reinforcements to the front section where the toe link attaches as that was actually the weakest point.
As Kris said, the material fatigues around the spindle on the outside surface of the trailing arm. My theory is that the reason this happens is because the backside of the spindle( where the large nut is) is supported by a metal plate that is full of holes and flexes. The outside is then forced to resist this flexing and ends up carrying most of the load. As you can see on mine we reinforced the backside area. There are more gussets hidden from view. The lower control arm attachment point was also reinforced.
The result of all of this reinforcement is that my rear wheel bearings have now become the weak link. Every rear link is heim-jointed at this point. I am going to go back to a stock rubber-bushed link at the upper control arm to allow some "give". More pictures to come of the arms on the car.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 02:19AM by gkd.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Attachments:
open | download - 97 RTA Inside Rear.jpg (253.1 KB)
97 RTA Inside Rear.jpg
open | download - 97 RTA Top.jpg (254 KB)
97 RTA Top.jpg
gkd
George Doganis
Ultra Moderator
Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 94

Rally Car:
Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 02:22AM
97 Civic front subframe weighs about 35-36 lbs. Here are a couple of pics.

George
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Attachments:
open | download - 97 Fr Subframe Top View.jpg (221.1 KB)
97 Fr Subframe Top View.jpg
open | download - 97 Fr Subfame Bottom View.jpg (230.1 KB)
97 Fr Subfame Bottom View.jpg
Cosworth
Paulinho Ferreira
Ultra Moderator
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: 03/15/2007
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 721

Rally Car:
Honda Civic



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 08:34AM
I'd be in for some goodies.

George the rear trailing arms you got there look pretty good actually. That center "spinder web" section is probably the most important part of the reinforcement.

As for the subframes; making an EG subframe would work on all 92+ Civics and Integras. The 96+ civic crowd would just have to swap the control arms to the better ones from the Integra. And the design would have to allow for a K20 to drop in grinning smiley
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login