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Totally Tubular Honda part

Posted by SteelSolutions 
gkd
George Doganis
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Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 94

Rally Car:
Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 04:38PM
Paul,

Interesting point about the frame interchangeability between EG 92-95 Civic(same as 94-01 Integra) and EK 96-00 Civic. In my search I have seen conflicting reports on having camber issues when using EG subframes on EKs. Thorough measurement would be necessary. You are right that the EG subframe is definitely better for K-series motors(RSX-S, 06-on Civic SI, TSX) which can make great power. As far as control arms go, the base EK has stout cast iron ones and the 99 Si boxed steel units that are about 1 pound lighter. The EK uses larger bolts than the EG on the front mount of the lower control arm. With careful planning the custom subframe could work for both cars incorporating the best features of each design and maybe be available in 2 versions.

George
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brianosaurus
Brian Gottlieb
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Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: 05/25/2007
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 8

Rally Car:
1988 Toyota FX-16 GTS


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 05:04PM
Quote
phlat65
Looking good William! He is going to be stoked.

Yeah, he is. I mean, Yes I am!!!
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Location: Edmonds, Washington
Join Date: 02/12/2009
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 1,802

Rally Car:
Building a Merkur


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 08:37PM
I have it at home, just about to go fit it. That, combined with the new arms, the "Blingin" gold tunnel is pretty bad ass.

BTW, what color you want me to paint it? Hot pink, day glo orange?
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SteelSolutions
William Timmins
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Location: Redmond WA
Join Date: 02/26/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 648

Rally Car:
3 xr4ti/74 capri/02 bug eye



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 08:41PM
Sean has the frame now It turned out sweet! he will post some pics after paint.
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gkd
George Doganis
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Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
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Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 10:02PM
What is the weight?
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BillyElliot
Billy Elliot Mann
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Location: Royal Oak, MI
Join Date: 08/11/2008
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Posts: 557

Rally Car:
1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO!


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 10:54PM
Personally, I think that the trailing arm strength is probably fine.

Considering I ripped out the toe link mount from the frame, plucked the big trailing arm bushing out (and pulled one of those mounts from the frame), bent a lower control arm, and completely yanked out the upper. My trailing arm doesn't even look bent up at all (I'll compare it to a non-bent one in the future).
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gkd
George Doganis
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Location: San Diego
Join Date: 03/25/2007
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Posts: 94

Rally Car:
Civic


gkd
Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 24, 2011 11:32PM
Good point Billy. In my case, once I converted all the rear lateral links to heim-jointed chrome-moly tubes I noticed the rear alignment changing(not outright failure-just bending over time). This issue became less noticeable when the trailing arms were strengthened. The toe link body mount that you ripped off is what I am going to reinforce next.

George
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Location: Edmonds, Washington
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Building a Merkur


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 25, 2011 12:53AM
Fit like a glove. I had to make a new rack to body seal, as the original one seals to the flat top of the original subframe. I happened to have a new E30 BMW front strut bump stop that has an integrated bellows, it turned out perfect. The OE frame is pretty light, but even with .120 wall tubing it is the same or lighter. I will get some pictures up once i have a spare minute.
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SteelSolutions
William Timmins
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Location: Redmond WA
Join Date: 02/26/2008
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3 xr4ti/74 capri/02 bug eye



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 25, 2011 02:49AM
Quote
gkd
What is the weight?

This frame was not about the weight I used thick wall 4130
and lots of 3/16, Its for preventing failure, I can get another
5 lbs out of the frame but not worth the risk.
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BillyElliot
Billy Elliot Mann
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Location: Royal Oak, MI
Join Date: 08/11/2008
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Rally Car:
1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO!


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 25, 2011 10:29AM
Quote
gkd
Good point Billy. In my case, once I converted all the rear lateral links to heim-jointed chrome-moly tubes I noticed the rear alignment changing(not outright failure-just bending over time). This issue became less noticeable when the trailing arms were strengthened. The toe link body mount that you ripped off is what I am going to reinforce next.

George

But you want that toe link at the frame to fail. It's not like you're hitting trees on a regular basis on stage. It's part of a modular piece that's welded in. All I need to do is cut and re-weld in a new one. If I strengthened it (don't really know how aside from extra plating it, it would start pulling the floor out behind the seats next.

I might stick with doing the spider web with smaller bars to keep the flex down as I see that being a problem. I've seen track cars split the trailing arm near the upper control arm mount giving massive positive camber from having too much grip. So the same weak point is there for rally.

But i've also just been running rubber bushings all around, no heims.
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Location: Edmonds, Washington
Join Date: 02/12/2009
Age: Midlife Crisis
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Rally Car:
Building a Merkur


Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 26, 2011 12:37AM
The finished product. It fits very well. Looks great too! Thanks William.
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Attachments:
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subframe.jpg
Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
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Location: SLC
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Rally Car:
Civic...



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 26, 2011 10:50AM
hawt.
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SteelSolutions
William Timmins
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Location: Redmond WA
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Rally Car:
3 xr4ti/74 capri/02 bug eye



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 26, 2011 04:04PM
Sweet red works well! glad its easy to install as well one off parts are not always forgiving.
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RallyTaco
Chris Lanctot
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Location: Livonia, MI
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just a wannabe



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 26, 2011 04:10PM
Less gigunda picture.
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slidewayswrx
Patrick Darrow
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Location: Portland OR
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Swedish John Deere



Re: Totally Tubular Honda part
May 27, 2011 10:47AM
So I don't think the original reason for going with this tubular subframe ever got mentioned. We were have issues with deformation of the rear motor mount. The engine was moving hard enough to rip the sheet metal on the subframe under the rear engine mount. When purchased the car had solid engine mounts. After trashing the mounts and brackets once we reinforced the brackets and went with poly for the mounts. This made things better and got us through the last 3 or 4 rallies but we had rear mount failure and a torn subframe at OTR.

Hope this cures it once and for all and also brings the possibility of the solid mounts back into the picture.

Huge thanks to William and Sean, two great NW rally folk, for getting all this done on a huge time crunch.
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