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School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...

Posted by Mad Matt F 
mulik52
Klim Verba
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2013 10:16AM
It sounds like semantics argument in terms of thicken vs effectively thicken. Who cares.

I found this graph though, plotting oil viscocities vs temperature. Its crazy to see how thick the multigrade oil gets at low temp and is still fine to use:
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/images/graph_3_viscosity_multigrade.jpg

Notice that y scale is not linear.

Klim
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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2013 11:04AM
Quote
mulik52
It sounds like semantics argument in terms of thicken vs effectively thicken. Who cares.

I found this graph though, plotting oil viscocities vs temperature. Its crazy to see how thick the multigrade oil gets at low temp and is still fine to use:
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/images/graph_3_viscosity_multigrade.jpg

Notice that y scale is not linear.

Klim

Yep its just pointless argument to "win"
It's simply not a big deal unless you have some really new engine with those variable cam deals which do want very specific things.
Most of us don't see the low temps that really calls for 0W and 5W.



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mulik52
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2013 02:05PM
I know it is completely irrational, but I have a weird thing with oils, a motor oil fetish if you will, where before every oil change I spend days researching all the info about which ones are Grp3 and which ones Grp4, and if Motul Ester oils are really worth the money, and if all the oils are shit now with the new regulation with lower zinc, and if I should just get the Delvac, and if I should just do single weight oil, and if the is too thick and will foam in the crankcase too much, and if it is too thin and the film will be broken at 7000rpm between the crank and the bearing.....gives me nightmaresyawning smiley

Klim

Quote
john vanlandingham

Yep its just pointless argument to "win"
It's simply not a big deal unless you have some really new engine with those variable cam deals which do want very specific things.
Most of us don't see the low temps that really calls for 0W and 5W.
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Pete
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2013 04:55PM
Quote
Mad Matt F
Woah woah woah.

as much as I love the "banter" here... this thread concerns the Justy which sports "hello kitty" stickers, and I have signed autographes for 9 year olds at rallies.

It's a well known fact that Hello Kitty adds 10hp per sticker.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2013 06:19PM
Quote
mulik52
I know it is completely irrational, but I have a weird thing with oils, a motor oil fetish if you will, where before every oil change I spend days researching all the info about which ones are Grp3 and which ones Grp4, and if Motul Ester oils are really worth the money, and if all the oils are shit now with the new regulation with lower zinc, and if I should just get the Delvac, and if I should just do single weight oil, and if the is too thick and will foam in the crankcase too much, and if it is too thin and the film will be broken at 7000rpm between the crank and the bearing.....gives me nightmaresyawning smiley

Klim

Quote
john vanlandingham

Yep its just pointless argument to "win"
It's simply not a big deal unless you have some really new engine with those variable cam deals which do want very specific things.
Most of us don't see the low temps that really calls for 0W and 5W.

Tavarich, i work on lots of engines over the years older than you which means they spent a lot of the lives being lubed up with ancient old oils which were maybe filtered with an old sock.
I'm talking engines built 1967-1974. Then lots of engines from 85-90.
I am pretty careful engine builder, and I measure 3-4 timers everything ---and only ocassionally make big mistake (99% is an A+.....even if that 1% you never hear the end of)
Most of the engines were Fords V4--(nemenski V4) and 2300 (Brazil) and Saab 99/900 and later lots of Volvo. most owned be average flaky enthusiasts who didn't always stay on maintenance schedule and the engines leaked so low oil often---and many very high miles on carbie or crude controlled leaks like K-jet

If you look at engine bearings that grey color you see is a very thin very soft lead and tin alloy which is as soft as cold butter bonded to a steel backing that has been copper plated.

The motors with cast iron cranks always made it to over 175,000 miles with good bearings..
And that was running decades with icky ancient oil that was like API SA or SB.
Current API grade is SN. Miles better at everything..

remember a lot of this is before the oil companies started up their franchised "Qwik-lube" operations and started telling people they must change the oil every 3000 miles regardless of the OEM manuals saying 6-7000 miles

The pivotal question is: how did those old motors make it to 300,000km if the oil was so much inferior to todays oil..
Bearings are mostly the same (though many OEM bearings are now aluminum alloys because lead is evil).

It doesn't make a huge difference. plenty of fresh clean oil at right pressure and right temp.
I am big fan of Shell Rotella T because I have a n idea what the engines in big cross country semi-tractors cost and how they run them hard back and forth across the whole continent weekly. If it works for them with $100,000 turbo diesels, it works good for me..
So relax. Get a temp gauge and a pressure gauge and just be nice--and get a good cooler if needed.



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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2013 11:45PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

Tavarich...
LOL Davai comrade so did you build engines for the reds?
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 21, 2013 12:18AM
Quote
Cosworth
Quote
john vanlandingham

Tavarich...
LOL Davai comrade so did you build engines for the reds?

No but back in the bad ol days I did give some tires to some guys from behind the Iron Curtain.
And when visiting later in Slovenia, my friend a Lieutenant in the Yugoslavian Army whose wife was academic in University we started hatching plot to get me signed up as student and that would get me residence permit and that would allow up to 20 hours work/week and then THAT would allow him to make application to go to Winter Training Came just outside of Odessa on Black Sea where he'd been the year before...


Now this guys Dad was like town Party boss and just made a half smile face at dinner at all these plans and warum nicht?
So he knows how the system worked there. I had been in Sweden maybe 6 years working in industry, I know how that system worked, and I had grown up in USA South, the in the west and in anti-war and anti-imperialism movements..and these guys knew all this.
I would make those guys cry with laughter at the stories about working in Sweden, and about life in America, and the stories that 'merikuns tell about how harsh and joyless and grim and grey and miserable their lives were..Uproarious laughter. They were in the Alps, it was 10km to Austrian border, they travelled for racing, had limitless beer for pennies and "In winter its good, Austrian girls come for skiing and you spend whole winter fucking nice Austrian girls--You will make excellent communist!"

I did help those guys with their Fiat 850 van...does that count?
I cut out contact paper and lettering to make it look better, drivers name, mechanics name, Jugoslavija and a Jugoslav flag with a BIG RED STAR (and a smaller one for his helmet!)

That count?



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Pete
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 21, 2013 06:17AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
It doesn't make a huge difference. plenty of fresh clean oil at right pressure and right temp.

So relax. Get a temp gauge and a pressure gauge and just be nice--and get a good cooler if needed.

Indeed. All the fancy special blends are mainly for people who are interested in ignoring maintenance (on the street end) or have to deal with 400lb over the nose valve springs with little 3/4" diameter flat tappets (on the racing end).

I keep thinking back to the guy with a Subaru with a rod knock who got that rod knock from having not enough oil. I had some 20W50 sludge with me and I offered it up. "It calls for (whatever, I forget), will that be okay?" Well, let's see, even if the engine wasn't hurt, you have a sump full of air and dist and spider webs, even used tranny fluid will be better than what you've got right now...



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Cosworth
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 21, 2013 09:57AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Cosworth
Quote
john vanlandingham

Tavarich...
LOL Davai comrade so did you build engines for the reds?

No but back in the bad ol days I did give some tires to some guys from behind the Iron Curtain.
And when visiting later in Slovenia, my friend a Lieutenant in the Yugoslavian Army whose wife was academic in University we started hatching plot to get me signed up as student and that would get me residence permit and that would allow up to 20 hours work/week and then THAT would allow him to make application to go to Winter Training Came just outside of Odessa on Black Sea where he'd been the year before...


Now this guys Dad was like town Party boss and just made a half smile face at dinner at all these plans and warum nicht?
So he knows how the system worked there. I had been in Sweden maybe 6 years working in industry, I know how that system worked, and I had grown up in USA South, the in the west and in anti-war and anti-imperialism movements..and these guys knew all this.
I would make those guys cry with laughter at the stories about working in Sweden, and about life in America, and the stories that 'merikuns tell about how harsh and joyless and grim and grey and miserable their lives were..Uproarious laughter. They were in the Alps, it was 10km to Austrian border, they travelled for racing, had limitless beer for pennies and "In winter its good, Austrian girls come for skiing and you spend whole winter fucking nice Austrian girls--You will make excellent communist!"

I did help those guys with their Fiat 850 van...does that count?
I cut out contact paper and lettering to make it look better, drivers name, mechanics name, Jugoslavija and a Jugoslav flag with a BIG RED STAR (and a smaller one for his helmet!)

That count?
Oh man, that was too far from Moscow, you were closer when you were in Sweden. My wife was born and raised behind the curtain and even though she had a privileged life (uncle was local KGB in Lithuania) it was still a clusterfuck. Now you fixed a Fiat across the border in the CCCP??? How did they imported it since it was considered contraband to have anything made in the West? There was a Russo-Balt that had some based on Fiat designs though. And as far as Tavárich, that's no longer used, it was a more of a party movement thang... Now a good Russian will only say things like "suka blat".

I do like the idea of winters in Austria... maybe we should move there winking smiley
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 21, 2013 10:03AM
Quote
Pete
I keep thinking back to the guy with a Subaru with a rod knock who got that rod knock from having not enough oil. I had some 20W50 sludge with me and I offered it up. "It calls for (whatever, I forget), will that be okay?" Well, let's see, even if the engine wasn't hurt, you have a sump full of air and dist and spider webs, even used tranny fluid will be better than what you've got right now...
Yeah I got one of those zubarus here with a blown engine from someone trying to finish a stage with no oil pressure... rod knock and god knows what else including those pesky ring lands, that very much like to shatter because the stumart zubaru engine desiners only specified .010 ring gaps
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 21, 2013 10:59AM
Was the Polski Fiat not a way of getting around importing to Russia from the west? It did look suspiciously like a Lada Riva.
Now there was a small rwd car that a few put the larger 2.0 Fiat twin cam Mirafiori engine into for some sideways actions.

And to get this thread back on track for Matt. I like how you have gone for ORANGE on the little Subaru block, no doubt a subliminal nod to the Laverda Jota....



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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 21, 2013 11:52AM
Quote
Cosworth
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Cosworth
Quote
john vanlandingham

Tavarich...
LOL Davai comrade so did you build engines for the reds?

No but back in the bad ol days I did give some tires to some guys from behind the Iron Curtain.
And when visiting later in Slovenia, my friend a Lieutenant in the Yugoslavian Army whose wife was academic in University we started hatching plot to get me signed up as student and that would get me residence permit and that would allow up to 20 hours work/week and then THAT would allow him to make application to go to Winter Training Came just outside of Odessa on Black Sea where he'd been the year before...


Now this guys Dad was like town Party boss and just made a half smile face at dinner at all these plans and warum nicht?
So he knows how the system worked there. I had been in Sweden maybe 6 years working in industry, I know how that system worked, and I had grown up in USA South, the in the west and in anti-war and anti-imperialism movements..and these guys knew all this.
I would make those guys cry with laughter at the stories about working in Sweden, and about life in America, and the stories that 'merikuns tell about how harsh and joyless and grim and grey and miserable their lives were..Uproarious laughter. They were in the Alps, it was 10km to Austrian border, they travelled for racing, had limitless beer for pennies and "In winter its good, Austrian girls come for skiing and you spend whole winter fucking nice Austrian girls--You will make excellent communist!"

I did help those guys with their Fiat 850 van...does that count?
I cut out contact paper and lettering to make it look better, drivers name, mechanics name, Jugoslavija and a Jugoslav flag with a BIG RED STAR (and a smaller one for his helmet!)

That count?
Oh man, that was too far from Moscow, you were closer when you were in Sweden. My wife was born and raised behind the curtain and even though she had a privileged life (uncle was local KGB in Lithuania) it was still a clusterfuck. Now you fixed a Fiat across the border in the CCCP??? How did they imported it since it was considered contraband to have anything made in the West? There was a Russo-Balt that had some based on Fiat designs though. And as far as Tavárich, that's no longer used, it was a more of a party movement thang... Now a good Russian will only say things like "suka blat".

I do like the idea of winters in Austria... maybe we should move there winking smiley
No no the boys were in Northern Slovenia, Yugoslavija... You know after the Soviets had fucked with their cousins in Czecho and Tito split with the Stalinistas in 1949, Yugoslavija did a balancing act all the way until dissolution of whole "East Block"..
Some things they got from Russia, some from the West... One of those was cooperation with FIAT which ran a plant building "Zaztavas" (which came to USA for a short while as "Yugos"winking smiley.
Much like the deal that the Italian Communists leaders and MPs worked out to sell off the entire old Fiat plant to the Rooskies to build Fiat 124-based VAZ-2101, the Yugoslavijans built older Fiat designs (that Fiat was done making)
So it was in France that I helped them work on the poor little 850 van (poor thing it was CRAMMED FULL. They couldn't do 90 km/hr and me in my mighty 404D would have to almost idle to go that slow... (there was one position for the gas in that 404D: full thottle.. I learned about smooth full throttle downshifts in summer passing long lines of Frenchies pulling camping trailers or the poor Saviems and Fiat trucks up hills..
Me looking like Ted Nugent:

Screaming "Fawkin Froggie Bastids with you slow shit get outta the way!! NEVER LIFT!!!!!!"winking smiley

It was a long running joke among my friends from East Bloc that I would make a "good" Communist ---as one friend--a Finn---not really east block but HE WAS!---said:"you would be very good man on the first day of the Revolution...But on the second day we'd have to shoot you. 8( "

(And my 2 different inquiries by members of the Chinese Communist Party have been both turned down..(sniffle!) I asked why and the answer was "The CCP is for Chinese."
I asked both (friends) what the last line in the Manifesto was...neither knew (in chinese or English) so I said "Its WORKERS of the WORLD UNITE...and I'm nothing if I'm not a worker of the world and I HAVE been uniting with workers all over the world for decades---and now I am united with a beautiful Chinese worker---my wife--and that uniting has resulted in this, my beautiful little daughter!, So HA! I should be accepted!')



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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 30, 2013 07:47PM
IT LIVES!!!!!!
IT's (was) ALIIIIIIIIVE!!!!!!





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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
December 01, 2013 08:57AM
I hope the small bracketed "was" in John's post doesn't mean bad things have happened to the Justy.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
December 01, 2013 01:55PM
Quote
danster
I hope the small bracketed "was" in John's post doesn't mean bad things have happened to the Justy.

It appears he was a DNF----something about "suspension"...which he had not done anything but changed the oil...

OK so next event



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