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School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...

Posted by Mad Matt F 
Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 11, 2011 06:12PM
Exhaust 33 mm

Intake 28 mm x 2
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 11, 2011 06:16PM
Valve springs

length 45.5 mm

Diam 27.5mm

Wire diam 4mm

Oh and pardon the crappy plastic caliper...
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 11, 2011 06:38PM
I don't have a lower end with me right now, but here's some block stuff...

Bore x Stroke: 78 mm x 83 mm

Stock it supposedly made 66 hamster power at 5200, and peak torxs of 70 inch pounds around 3200...

I can't find much on the cam... and don't know how to measure duration (forgot to get lift, but can get that later tonight or tomorrow.

Oh and found valve spring numbers of 112-130 psi, I guess that's at the valve???

Leaving on vacation to China Wednesday, won't touch it again til late July, early Aug.

Matty
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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 11, 2011 09:36PM
OK so you can see there's plenty of quench pad so that means it'll be tolerant of decent compression and the pistons will probably live OK.

You have more intake valve area than a 1800-2000cc VW Golf (2 x 32mm)
So no worries there.

So to make some awesome powerz we gotta get the compression ratio up, so when we piss away comp with a cam sitting open longer there still decent dynamic (such and odd word in reference to this thing--let's call it the Dynamic Trioâ„¢) compression.
Port shape looks horrible but so what.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Mad Matt F
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 12, 2011 09:37AM
Okay, Cool thanks John.

Should I bother measuring more then lift on the cam? Can we just spec good 'nuff without knowing stock duration?

Matty
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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 12, 2011 10:04AM
Quote
Mad Matt F
Okay, Cool thanks John.

Should I bother measuring more then lift on the cam? Can we just spec good 'nuff without knowing stock duration?

Matty

Lets see the cam lift, valve lift if that thing has rockers, and a book look up on duration....

Hey where youse going in China? Are you going with your adult Evangelical Soul/Rock marching band's gymnastic team to convert the heathens??

Come on! Ya know there's me and 5 Chinese wiminz here now since last Friday? Well two wimminz and three girlies between 4 1/2 and 7.

So I can tell you all about China..
Like...ya know the story of the Crossing at Wu Dang Bridge? Mythologized!!! But still i want to see the bridge!


Come on spill it.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 12, 2011 10:31AM
Mais oui!, Je sais de vous et votre femme chinoise...

We're headed to the west, fly into Lanzhou, and then bus, walk, whatever to Chengdu a week and a bit later, fly out of Chengdu. Too short of time, but we're both too busy for much more right now.

Never been to China, so it will be a bit of a shocker for sure!

There were several options, discussions, etc about where to go. We thought about Mongolia, but the 100hr train ride through the dust storms sounded too cool to handle. Tibet seemed too hard to get into and for the time we had, too big. This should be a nice pace, and for once we're not riding bikes!

If I have time today when I'm up at the garage I'll measure lift on the cam and maybe throw the rockers back in and get valve lift...

Leave tomorrow morning, so if I don't... well you understand!

Cheers!

Matt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 10:31AM by Mad Matt F.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
July 12, 2011 12:56PM
Quote
Mad Matt F
Mais oui!, Je sais de vous et votre femme chinoise...

We're headed to the west, fly into Lanzhou, and then bus, walk, whatever to Chengdu a week and a bit later, fly out of Chengdu. Too short of time, but we're both too busy for much more right now.

Never been to China, so it will be a bit of a shocker for sure!

There were several options, discussions, etc about where to go. We thought about Mongolia, but the 100hr train ride through the dust storms sounded too cool to handle. Tibet seemed too hard to get into and for the time we had, too big. This should be a nice pace, and for once we're not riding bikes!

If I have time today when I'm up at the garage I'll measure lift on the cam and maybe throw the rockers back in and get valve lift...

Leave tomorrow morning, so if I don't... well you understand!

Cheers!

Matt

Well I've spent some time in Chengdu and it was just after the huge earthquake a couple of years ago..fascinating to see the place and reaction...the factory we were visiting was about 50km from some of the worst devastation, and every sq/m of flat space was covered in refugee tents and Red Cross tents, the principles at the factory saying at lunch "What can we do? The poor people have nothing, we can offer some flat ground and water and electricity, we have that..."

They said they were proud of the response THIS TIME from Beijing and said "Did you see? President Hu was here 3 hours after the earthquake...."

I asked them if they'd heard about the floods after Katherina in New Orleans and that all said "Oh yes, such terrible flooding!" I said "Well, OUR President Bush came by there not in three hours, but after 3 days, and from 33,000 feet he leaned over and peeked out the window. Isn't that great?" Silence......then huge burst of laughter!

We went south to see the huge Buddha carved into the cliffs at the juction of the rivers, Minjiang, Dadu and Qingyi rivers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leshan_Giant_Buddha and then a bit further South to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Emei
Emeishan (Shan is mountain) which was marvelous....amazing actually...

The Dadu River a few miles away is the site of the epic, way mythologized "Crossing of the Luding Bridge" by the Red Army during the Long March in May 1935. Reading about the myth and the reality is an enlightening look into the history in constructed.
Here's a snip showing how it was portrayed:
<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="

?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>

great stuff! But like the Alamo, the myth is way more exciting, the reality way more complicated.

Have fun, be brave, eat local and drink beer!



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
August 01, 2011 10:34AM
Okay so here are some measured valve train numbers... no many but a few.

Valve lift (both exhaust and intake) 7mm
Cam lift (rocker actuated valve) 5mm

Pics of the cam profile and valve lift attached.

Following found on the Justy website:

Stock:
Intake
Valve Opening = -8.2 'BTDC
Lobe Center = 110 'ATDC
Valve Closure = 20.6 'ATDC
Duration = 192.4 Crank Deg
Max Cam Lift = .19173 IN.
Net Valvelift = .2876 IN.
Lobe Area = 14.77 IN. *Deg

Exhaust
Valve Opening = 27.2 'BBDC
Lobe Center = 114 'BTDC
Valve Closure = -8.2 'ATDC
Duration = 198.9 Crank Deg
Max Cam Lift = .19165 IN.
Net Valvelift = .28748 IN.
Lobe Area = 15.29 IN. *Deg


And a regrind a guy did....:


Modified:
Intake
Valve Opening = -2.4 'BTDC
Lobe Center = 108.2 'ATDC
Valve Closure = 26.4 'ABDC
Duration = 204 Crank Deg
Max Cam Lift = .20673 IN.
Net Valvelift = .3101 IN.
Lobe Area = 16.34 IN. *Deg

Exhaust
Valve Opening = 29.3 'BBDC
Lobe Center = 109.4 'BTDC
Valve Closure = -2.4 'ATDC
Duration = 206.8 Crank Deg
Max Cam Lift = .21142 IN.
Net Valvelift = .31713 IN.
Lobe Area = 17.35 IN. *Deg
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
August 01, 2011 10:35AM
Lift
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Mad Matt F
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
August 01, 2011 10:36AM
Cam profile
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Rally Car:
Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun!


Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
August 01, 2011 10:39AM
Oh and there was no converting of the heathens... the choir backed out at the last minute. But man what a trip!

Matt
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
August 09, 2011 10:04AM
Back to the making intake...

Locally I can get aluminum tubing in 1.27in (32 mm) ID or 1.5in (38mm) ID.

I already picked up the smaller ID stuff, having done the conversion math in my head (actually on the side of my leatherman!) in the store and coming up with 33-34 mm but I was using the new math and um was um wrong...

For making the intake runners, do I need to be THAT worried about ID size? the bore on the carbs is 33 mm, and the stock runners were 32x34 mm. My concern is perhaps the smaller ID runner will reduce the venturi in carb at full throttle, and given the vastly huge power expected, I'm usually either full throttle or full brake so part throttle is not a typical setting.

If I go to the larger size, then it cuts down at the head a fair bit, but that could be smoothed out.

Thoughts?

Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2011 11:31AM by Mad Matt F.
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 19, 2011 11:41AM
Okay,

The intake is all put together. My question now is re vacuum.

There are now three separate runners from each carb about 2 inches long. I can easily tap in for a couple lines in each one.

I need vacuum for:

Spark advance
4WD switches
Brake booster.

Given the separate runners should I make a three way tee for the brake and tap all three, then do the same for the others, or just tap each unit in to one runner?

Or say screw the brake booster? I think not, but....

Thanks.



Matt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2011 11:49AM by Mad Matt F.
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Re: School me in the ways of intaking fuel and air...
November 20, 2011 10:21AM
So maybe I'm over-thinking this...

If there's a slight diff in the amount of accessories being run by each runner, but I'm only drawing vacuum when the throttle is closed or part closed, and I really don't care how well it runs at idle as long as it runs... who cares right?

So maybe I will just plumb the big brake vacuum line to one, and the others to the other two?

make sense?

Could also build the juice can vacuum camber....

Matt
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