Revamping the Rx7

i second that, i still think they are a killer motor, only when done properly.

and properly is not cheap these days.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

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mellow65
i second that, i still think they are a killer motor, only when done properly.

and properly is not cheap these days.

Yeah really a shame they're all beat to death. Stoooopid power AND reliability...
Not an easy combo in a relatively small (but damn they're dense) package.

On the other hand, there ARE some nice motors with easy known upgrade paths...

[Homer Simpson voice on] Duraaaa tec (drool) duraaaatec, must consume Duratec [/Homer Simpson voice off]

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 02:53PM by john vanlandingham.

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john vanlandingham

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mellow65
i second that, i still think they are a killer motor, only when done properly.

and properly is not cheap these days.

Yeah really a shame they're all beat to death. Stoooopid power AND reliability...
Not an easy combo in a relatively small (but damn they're dense) package.

On the other hand, there ARE some nice motors with easy known upgrade paths...

[Homer Simpson voice on] Duraaaa tec (drool) duraaaatec, must consume Duratec [/Homer Simpson voice off]

would it make you feel better if i told you the next car build will involve a duratec (because i have decided I'm in love with the build)

still deciding the chassis though, although i'll probably lean towards the rx7, just because i'm crazy like that.

and there's no reason why i can't be known for oddball motor swaps in rx7, we all have to be known for something.

it's also going to follow much of the preaching you do, fancy 4 link and all that fun stuff.

now back to class so i can afford it all.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

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mellow65
would it make you feel better if i told you the next car build will involve a duratec (because i have decided I'm in love with the build)

still deciding the chassis though, although i'll probably lean towards the rx7, just because i'm crazy like that.

and there's no reason why i can't be known for oddball motor swaps in rx7, we all have to be known for something.

Duratec in an RX-7 isn't really that oddball. It's just an MX-5 engine. I swear I've heard of people putting Miata motors in RX-7s somewhere. Where did I see that again?

-D

Phat like a sumo.

You wouldn't believe some of the things I've heard about my personal piston project. My main rationale is that parts are getting scarce and it seems like my car is the black hole for rotary parts in the Ohio area. One summer, I bought every trans that came up for sale and I used 'em all. In retrospect, that's pretty wasteful and selfish, it keeps the other people from keeping their cars on the road.

One of my friends basically told me, fuck the other people, keep your car rotary. So which is it? Fuck the rotary community by keeping them from having parts, or fuck the rotary community (somehow) by putting a (blank) in my personal car that I plan on keeping until the shell is scrap?

I don't get people sometimes...

Something interesting I discovered today. The control arms from, say, a '05 Malibu Maxx (interchanges with various other cars) looks like it will practically be a bolt-in, but will also widen the front track by two inches. Just need to make a couple tabs for the rear bushing, and have the balljoint hole reamed out to 20mm. Not sure if that will weaken the upright any, but someone's got to be the guinea pig. Bonus: There are scadloads of those cars in junkyards, very few RX-7s, and since the whole control arm is a wear item, they are readily available aftermarket.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 07:44PM by Pete.

Actually you might be surprised how much you won't get flamed from the rotary world for swapping motors. I figured I would had gotten flamed to no end for my Subaru mess, I had pretty much nothing but complements on the whole thing.

And one guy explained the best when I was shocked of all the support.

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We all can respect your fabrication skills, its hard to flame a guy with skills that you don't have.

It's usually the 15 yr old kids that say "my friend says rotaries suck, someone give me a parts list to put a v8 in my fb" that get flamed to no end.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

While true, there's still a lot of Holy Rotors out there. I can honestly say that I've built enough 12As, 13Bs, street ports, bridge ports, and peripheral ports, and driven the snot out of them, that there's no argument that I "didn't give the rotary a chance". Hell, I think I drove my car more in the last month than some of those whiners drive all year. If they like them so much, why aren't they driving them?

I drove my bridge-ported RX-7 about 3000mi last month, 2500 before that, and this included a week of downtime after I fragged a transmission hard - something came apart hard enough that the input shaft won't turn. And I've been playing with the things for almost 15 years... but Mazda says funtime is over, so it's time to start planning on moving on.

The only thing keeping me away from the BP idea is that you're pretty much stuck with the Miata transmission, which is the same unit that I keep fragging with only about 150-170ft-lb. Only, Miata transmissions are somehow much more expensive. Must be all of the other turbo guys exploding them on trackdays.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:23PM by Pete.

I'm guessing y'all get less grief about going rotary->pistons than a guy I've seen who's building a turbo I4 (ecotec ?) C4 Corvette for serious cone squishing.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

next engine will be a duratec, but since the adapter isnt done, I dont care to wait around for X number of months until it is. Once i can get one, Ill buy one for version 3.0

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Well don't take my teasing Alex and mostly Matt as bashing , it isn't. Just teasing as usual. I'd likely give up on the rotary nowadays myself. When I raced there was a guy in Bremerton..Doug ???...who built them for very cheap. Dirt floor garage no less. But what a whiz he was and the motors ran...I'd guess he is long retired and I wouldn't pay the prices the actual brick and mortar places charge.

I was getting about 300 hp out of a Pport he built. Ran for years turning 9-9500. 5 mpg on a good day, don't race on a cold day as the 50IDA iced up terribly. It would break the back tires loose on dry pavement going into 3rd gear if needed. Cost about 300 bucks to get built without carb. Pretty good back in the day when most 4 bangers didn't see much past 150-175 at best. Now not-so-much.

The Duratec and Ecotek are incredible , affordable offerings and Mistsu is close behind but a bit pricier.

Holy crap, yeah if I could do a rotary for $300 I would have just stayed. The motor that was in Alexs car was $1200, and that was a 12a with a street port. I priced out a new 13b by buying the parts, want to say was in that $3000 range. Now yes I could had found used 13bs and start from there, but my goal was to not have to get a dozen motors just to be able to get a pile good enough parts.

Yup times have changed, but I still like the chassis even though the suspension is dated as is the steering. Which both can be fixed. It's one of those dying cars that are small and still cheap. I can still pick up dead cars for free to almost free. My caged shell was just over 1700lbs, I don't think there is much else out there that can touch that for that kind of money.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

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Gravity Fed
next engine will be a duratec, but since the adapter isnt done, I dont care to wait around for X number of months until it is. Once i can get one, Ill buy one for version 3.0

Adaptor for what transmission? There are already three rear-drive trannies (off the top of my head) that bolt to that engine. Not sure if any of those trannies have the right cost/awesome ratio, but they do exist.

-Dave

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eyesoreracing

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Gravity Fed
next engine will be a duratec, but since the adapter isnt done, I dont care to wait around for X number of months until it is. Once i can get one, Ill buy one for version 3.0

Adaptor for what transmission? There are already three rear-drive trannies (off the top of my head) that bolt to that engine. Not sure if any of those trannies have the right cost/awesome ratio, but they do exist.

-Dave

Dave ratios make and break the usefulness of a tranny. And alternate gears IF YOU WANT, especially for making motors in the "a lot more fun range".

Type 9 Ford or Borg Warner T5..


Were these 2 of the trannies?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Check these out

http://www.rwdmotorsport.com/Bellhousings/Duratec-Engine-to-Ford-Gearbox-Hydraulic-Clutch-Bellhousing/prod_20.html

I want to get a type 9 version because quaife makes a sequential gear box that is a direct bolt in for the type 9.

Yeah that's dreaming, but it's fun to dream.

Also there is some dog leg fz trannys that will adapt too just for more good times.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

Tranny 1: MX-5 5-speed. Basically the same old Miata/RX-7 box with a new bolt pattern. I'm not 100% certain you can just swap bellhousings, but I'm 82% certain.

Tranny 2: MX-5 6-speed. Newish transmission. Only ever used in NC MX-5s and 2010-2012 RX-8s.

Tranny 3: Whatever piece of crap came in a Ranger.

The Miata 5-speed is not the strongest box in the world, but its cheap to rebuild, and there are well established solutions to the few problems it does have. Locked up boxes are usually syncrho/shift fork issues that have snowballed. Not terribly hard to correct.