Rally car needs new fueling system

So, lets start off by prefacing this with a statement - I am a dumbass.

I tried to fix something that wasnt broken on my rally car. I had a nice freshly rebuilt 2 liter 16v running the ke-jetronic from the old 1.8 16v that was in there. Did snodrift with that setup and it woked perfectly fine. But then I got to thinking that since I got a complete ke-motronic setup with the 2 liter I'd put that on since thats how its "supposed" to be. So lots of wire cutting and splicing and head scratching later the car still wont start, and in the process of trying to figure out whats up with it I destroyed the fuel distributor (which is different from the jetronic fd I'm told) So I need to figure out what my best option is.

I figure my choices are:

1) Get a new motronic fuel distributor and continue trouble shooting my wiring or whatever else may not be causing it to start.

2) Swap back to the ke-jetronic. Would be a headache cause I had to cut it out of the harness, but possible.

3) Ditch the mechanical fuel injection completely and go with a diy efi like megasquirt. I'd need to decide if I wanted to put the ignition side of the jetronic back in, or go with the 'nSpark stuff.

4) Screw all that fancy electrical type stuff and run basic CIS. I've got a airflow plate and fuel distributor from a bmw 320i so all I'd need is a warm up gregulator and an ignition system.

5) Something else? Carbs?

And remember, I'm poor so I'd like to limit this to costing around $500.

Megasquirt is simpleenough that even complete Dinosaurs like me can follow the assembly and set up instructions.
Figure out some independant throttle bodies.
More compression and cam!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well my whole plan right now is just to get it running decently without spending too much. Would I need a wideband o2 sensor and all the jazz to tune the megasquirt? cause the Innovative LM-1 wideband thinger pretty much blows my budget to begin with.

I'd rather rally a slower car than spend all my money building a bitchin rally car then have no money left over to race.

Oh yeah, but I do have a throttle body off an automatic 16v passat with a TPS on it...megasquirt would be fun...

Dude, Carbs are badass. My whole setup with those nice 47mm sk racing units was like 700. Thats the whole car running. If you go smaller and more beat carbs, like 40s or so you could most likely get it around 500 total.

But since I have all the parts for the basic swap, you could do that for like nothing.

MegaSquirt all the way - but hey, I'm running it on my 1.8 8V valve GTI :-).
You would need a wideband sensor and a controller - but LM-1 is not needed, settle for LC-1 - that'll do.

---

Brgrds
Brian

John Hruska Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dude, Carbs are badass. My whole setup with those
> nice 47mm sk racing units was like 700. Thats the
> whole car running. If you go smaller and more
> beat carbs, like 40s or so you could most likely
> get it around 500 total.
>
> But since I have all the parts for the basic swap,
> you could do that for like nothing.

I think I'm going to call you, John.
Megasquirt looks to be about $800 when its all said and done.
I think the carbies would get me up and running in less time for less dollas.
Ice trials on jan 13th in eagle river. I'll start on my spike tires once I get the b6t in the festy.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2006 08:39PM by Carl S.

Ya, GOOD choice.
Are you going to keep the knock sensor setup, or opt for the super simple rabbit style icu with saab dist?

I think I want to keep the knock sensor ignition since I gots the 10.4:1 compression.
I tried to call you, but it went straight to voicemail.
Can you give me a list of the peices you have so that I know what to start looking for. I found that port tuning has manifolds for $250, I missed out on one that a dude sold for $150.
Where do you get parts for the sk's? I havnt found anything about the on the web. Are they basically weber knock offs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2006 07:19PM by Carl S.

Ya Chassell has zero cell phone reception.
You'll need:

The carbs (obviously) Shoot for 45s so you have room to grow a little, But in reality 40s will work fine for under 150 hp.

Your ignition will work.

Get a manifold, the pierce one (www.piercemanifolds.com) has been quoted as being 240ish from them by the VW dudes (I emailed them, and got quotted like 500 so f' them). Or get one welded up using the stock manifold flange.

A waterneck. Oldschgol industries (http://www.oldskoolindustries.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=957) has the abf one that works for like 30, or get the one pierce has thats aluminum. (if you can't find one I can weld you one)

A linkage setup. Now this one you can do so many ways. I have seen guys buy only the center interlinkages and just make one on the outside right carb. I got the weber top mount setup from Pierce. (http://www.piercemanifolds.com/linkage.htm the part number is PM3714, it was like 130 shipped)

A fuel pump. I am using the Carter 4070, which puts out like 6 psi stock. Webers like more like 4 so you'll need a regulator. The VW guys have used the intank with only a regulator before, so you may want to try that first, and if that isn't enough you can try to warranty my other Carter and take it.
And since your gonna be doing all this fuel system work, you may as well run one hard line through the car.

Filters. You can do this one soo many differnt ways. There are those huge k&n challenger things I have, that take way too much modding to get in there, you can do some nice small slime ones, individual filter pods, etc.

Now the alternator setup I made is soo stupid simple, I have no idea why the VW dudes haven't thought of it. I took the stock alt bracket (the a/c and p/s one which I have a few of taking up space if you need one) and used a die grinder to take some webbing off so the alt would move nice, and used the stock alt with the non a/c pulley one it. You'll need to add a 1/8 inch washer or so under that pulley to space it out far enough. That turn buckle you have may work. If not a new one will be in order.

I think thats it.


WHOOPS didn't read all of your post!
Ya that porttunning one looks nice. It was my first pick, but I found my current one for cheaper.
The SKs are mostly weber molds boughten by the japanese when weber quit making thier dcoes. They modded the body slightly (the top cover has a slight chage in bolt patern) and made some improvments to them (really just added more crap to adjust things externally). They use the standard weber emulsion tubes, jets, ect.

God dam! Forgot the jets! I got most of mine from Pegasus racing (since they are in wisconsin, so its fast) http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=WEBERDCOEPJ



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2006 09:10PM by John Hruska.

Here are some basic tuning settings. Most of the things you'll find online are gonna be for pinto blocks.

Basic weber carburetors settings
chokes; Main jet ; emulsion tube; air corrector; idle jet; pump jet; needle valve;

DCOE40

upto 90 BHP; 28; 112; F16; 180; 45F9; 35; 150
upto 120 BHP; 30; 120; F16; 180; 45F9; 35; 150
upto 135 BHP; 32; 125; F16; 180; 45F9; 40; 150
upto 145 BHP; 34; 135; F16; 180; 45F9; 40; 150

Weber DCOM caruburetors require slightly richer idle jets and bigger main jets

DCOE45

upto 145 BHP; 34; 135; F16; 165; 55F8; 45; 200
upto 175 BHP; 36; 145; F16; 165; 55F8; 45; 200
upto 210 BHP; 38; 155; F16; 165; 55F8; 45; 200
upto 220 BHP; 40; 165; F16; 165; 55F8; 45; 200

VW16v/20516v&1.9/GM 16v ; 36 choke setting
above 16v engines but modified ; 38 choke setting

DCOE float level should be set at 7.5mm

Cool. Most of that sounds pretty simple. I've already got the non-ac alternator bracket on there, so the alt is already down low. I've got a guy that can weld my waterneck back up if I cut it angled. I think I'll just try the intank pump with a regulator first. Linkage looks good. The filters I'm not too worried about, I'll just stick a tube sock over each one. I'm gonna keep my eyes open on the bay to see if any cheapie manifolds turn up.

So you wanna sell me those 40mm sk's you got? They should be fine for a stock 2 liter 16v making barely 140hp.

I use to have 40 mm mikunis, but sold them long ago. If you look on ebay there are some cheap 40s creeping on there.

Oh ya, if you need to call me do it at my house: 523-4201
Also check your pms, I sent you a few links I found today at work.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2006 12:56PM by John Hruska.

Well I' teetering twords megasquirt again...
Theres a couple of throttle bodies that bolt up to dual dcoe anifolds on ebay for waaaay to cheap, so I may have to do that. I've also got my eye on a motronic fuel distributor for $30, so I may have to try that cause its cheap. And there are some round slide mikuni 44's for rediculously cheap too, I'd just have to find two more and figure out jetting for them...
Lots of options...

Or you can go to a junkyard and find a pre 1997 Ford pickup with port EFI and grab the throttle body, then grab another one.

I know the 4.9 six had twin 40mm throttles and the V8 engines were larger, I think 46 or 48mm.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.