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DMS suspension

Posted by NoCoast 
Do It Sidewayz
Chris Martin
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 10:45AM
Just stumbled upon this today.

2012 New DMS
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john vanlandingham
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 11:00AM
Quote
Do It Sidewayz
Just stumbled upon this today.

2012 New DMS

That's so pretty....

There was something at the bottom "To our knowledge, DMS / MSI is the only company to offer warranty on their products if you use them in competition?"

Jeeebus what am I trying to fix and improve you galoots crashed stuff for.


Somebody wanys to break their hearts and tell 'em somebody else offers a Warranty.

Offer mind you.

I offer to warranty if you agree to never stick in 3rd or drive above 1500 rpm......that oughtter take care of most of the Subies out there!



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Ian S
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 11:37AM
They do look pretty....... pretty expensive.
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fliz
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 11:53AM
John, you make adjustable top mounts?

Quote

As always, DMS's unique adjustable top mounts (manufactured under license by MSI) for a wide range of application still come with their lifetime warranty, even in competition use. To our knowledge, DMS / MSI is the only company to offer warranty on their products if you use them in competition?
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 11:57AM
pretty sure they only warranty the Top Mounts which are made by MSI in Montreal.

Having handled some of MSI's stuff, i can tell you it's TOP NOTCH. pretty sure they also do extensive modeling and Solidworks and do FEA on it, after all that they ofcourse know it's not going to break.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 12:12PM
Quote
Jon Burke
these are 40mm, but maybe contact them and see if they have 50mm?

http://www.compbrake.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=544&catId=0

They don't.
And if they did, what sort of logic would it be to order them there for much more than they cost here, and pay the postage on steel from UK instead of a little UPS domestic?



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john vanlandingham
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 12:20PM
Quote
fliz
John, you make adjustable top mounts?

Quote

As always, DMS's unique adjustable top mounts (manufactured under license by MSI) for a wide range of application still come with their lifetime warranty, even in competition use. To our knowledge, DMS / MSI is the only company to offer warranty on their products if you use them in competition?

I've re-made some of the bearing parts for several guys cause the Tien or no-name crap they had came with tiny 15mm or 5/8" bearings.
All the spherical bearing top mounts I've made so far have been fixed.

I strongly believe it is smarter to adjust the camber down at the control arm where a mm of adjust is direct acting



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NoCoast
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 02:43PM
RE: Compbrake stuff Jon B posted.

I've had some Compbrake parts. They sucked. Wouldn't be surprised if their strut tubes suck.
A full Subaru set from them last I looked will get into the 2200 range plus overseas shipping. Uses the same insert as John uses I believe.

There's a Finnish company that makes their own dampers and tubes. Super quality looking and they'll do anything. It's around 3.5-4k for the 40 mm stuff though.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 07:57PM
Quote
NoCoast
RE: Compbrake stuff Jon B posted.

I've had some Compbrake parts. They sucked. Wouldn't be surprised if their strut tubes suck.
A full Subaru set from them last I looked will get into the 2200 range plus overseas shipping. Uses the same insert as John uses I believe.

There's a Finnish company that makes their own dampers and tubes. Super quality looking and they'll do anything. It's around 3.5-4k for the 40 mm stuff though.

I got an order for a buncha inserts from my friend in China and after detailed discussions of what I wanted---the stuff I supply here with the same body length and shaft travel and M10 x 1 thread etc etc what part numbers and Sierra top, and they were nice enough to send from up norf direct.
The inserts were not at all the same. The bodies were stupid long, the shaft was smaller, the thread M8 x 1.25, and the tops were OEM Capri.
And the travel was like 160mm.
Wrong on every single point.

And NO RECOURSE.

But ya know there's a mentality out there that if its far away and expensive, it must be gooder-er. There's a indiot around here who invariably writes on Turbobricks any time anybody asks about suspesnion and only if somebody suggest my stuff or if I respond. The idiot always says "I got Sellhom suspension and it works great". But a decietful person and a known fraudster, the dipwad never mentions that he paid, for old school "tube welded directly into the knuckle" 50mm Bilsteins, some shocks for the original position, front bells and Alcon calipers, about $7500. And never mentions the air freight costs, US Customs Formal Entry which must be done by a bonded customs broker---probably another $250 there, plus duty of 2.3%.
When he posts and somebody, usually me asks why he bothers when he knows full well there is nobody elese on Turbobricks that is so stupid as to pay that much, the moron always answers "Cause it works right straight out of the box".......except the calipers rammed into the wheels hard....

The real answer is he is too fawking obnoxious to even attempt to work with anybody, and maybe simply too stupid to understand the advantages of making some effort so the strut itself is removable.
Now the meta-message is that if somebody is willing to cooperate we can pull off some really nice stuff even if, like it did with the 50mm Volvo stuff, it might mean a second try before its nailed down.

With that in mind,
Alex in Reno, your bent ears are off and the tube is ready to get new CrMo ears welded on.
Kevin Turner in NJ!! What are we doing about your rears? My brain is overloaded and you gotta remind me.

Whassis name in Alberta, TONY PENNEY with the old first run Golf stuff!!!
I carved the spring seats off, there was what was once dirt but now some ceramic cement under the full length of the spring seats, you would have never gotten them off..

Boys, service these things now and then and do something, a tight fitting O ring, a bicycle inner tube stretched over the top of the lower seat and the tube, SOME THINg to minimize the dirt getting under the spring seat.



John Vanlandingham
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Rallymech
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 08:49PM
I just picked up and delivered the sheet of 4130 to John for the ears.



Robert.

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Jon Burke
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 11:11PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Jon Burke
these are 40mm, but maybe contact them and see if they have 50mm?

http://www.compbrake.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=544&catId=0

They don't.
And if they did, what sort of logic would it be to order them there for much more than they cost here, and pay the postage on steel from UK instead of a little UPS domestic?

What kind of logic? Wellll, shit.....I dunno.....no one's posted anything yet that answer's Grant's question of 'how much to replace'. So I got nuthin' to compare that 159 pounds sterling against.

your post insinuate's that you have a cheaper source, but you haven't posted any factual pricing yet. Come on John, you're a better sales guy than that....school us on your product's ROI winking smiley (you've got the competitive FUD down perfect though.)


So, just how much cheaper?
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modernbeat
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Re: DMS suspension
November 11, 2011 11:42PM
Quote
fliz
John, you make adjustable top mounts?

Quote

As always, DMS's unique adjustable top mounts (manufactured under license by MSI) for a wide range of application still come with their lifetime warranty, even in competition use. To our knowledge, DMS / MSI is the only company to offer warranty on their products if you use them in competition?

I make some. They're pretty heavy duty to most types of racing. They are adequate for rally.

Bill Caswell had them on his E30 M3 in Mexico and couldn't destroy them despite multiple attempts.

I put a set on my girlfriend's rally car. Pics are on this page linked below.
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,46642,page=4

To match up with John's normal Subaru pin tops I need to make a custom threaded top nut, or if he would make the threaded part of the pin 1/2" longer, or use a 12x1.5 or 12x1.25 thread instead of 12x1.75 then I already have all the pieces to fit them perfectly.

I hate to spam the forum, but I'll be glad to talk to anyone about camber plates and fitment. Call the shop and ask for Jason McDaniel. 972-422-7170
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HiTempguy
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Re: DMS suspension
November 12, 2011 12:06AM
Quote
Jon Burke

What kind of logic? Wellll, shit.....I dunno.....no one's posted anything yet that answer's Grant's question of 'how much to replace'. So I got nuthin' to compare that 159 pounds sterling against.

your post insinuate's that you have a cheaper source, but you haven't posted any factual pricing yet. Come on John, you're a better sales guy than that....school us on your product's ROI winking smiley (you've got the competitive FUD down perfect though.)


So, just how much cheaper?

I've been waiting a while to post on this subject. All I know, is that in over 30 events we bent a DMS strut once, maybe twice... and the PGT car we were in wasn't exactly slow. Not "fast" as I would define fast, but fast enough (especially in the rough, were we excelled) and the DMS tended to soak it up.

This isn't to defend DMS, but I've had experience with them and they work. $5k worth of work? I dunno. How much is that to replace; Probably best to just buy a whole new strut, so probably $1k (wild-azz guesstimate, so call me on it if you will). To me, $5k seems worth it when all of the other brands either break (hotbits) or need development work (JVL). John, it seems like you do have a really good product, but unfortunately (for somebody like myself), I can't be sending it back and forth across the border (I'll ask Tony how much shipping was when I see him next weekend) for upgrading (and I don't know how you operate on "upgrading" stuff, presumably you are still charging to fix the suspension, so the price of what I'd consider your stuff to be "off the shelf" is higher than the initial purchase price).

As far as I am concerned, considering Mark-Jennings Bates came 5th overall in a fairly stock STi on K-Sports at the PFR regional (depending on how rough Defi was this year, PFR is probably the roughest event in Canada), everyone that is slower than him should be running those. And they cost $1500 new and something like $160 to replace the insert :p

And finally, just like punctures, drivers who destroy suspension bits like posted typically are the same ones who constantly bitch about punctures. If they focused on a better, cleaner line rather than driving straight through the ditch, they'd be easier on their car and have their parts survive longer, as well as gaining the necessary experience to be "fast". Obviously, a different story when we talk about Foust, uh, but at the pointy end of the field why the f*&k would you run on club-spec rally suspension?! But I'm sure the collective rally wisdom on these boards trumps my piddly experience smileys with beer
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john vanlandingham
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Re: DMS suspension
November 12, 2011 01:35AM
Quote
Jon Burke
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Jon Burke
these are 40mm, but maybe contact them and see if they have 50mm?

http://www.compbrake.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=544&catId=0

They don't.
And if they did, what sort of logic would it be to order them there for much more than they cost here, and pay the postage on steel from UK instead of a little UPS domestic?

What kind of logic? Wellll, shit.....I dunno.....no one's posted anything yet that answer's Grant's question of 'how much to replace'. So I got nuthin' to compare that 159 pounds sterling against.

your post insinuate's that you have a cheaper source, but you haven't posted any factual pricing yet. Come on John, you're a better sales guy than that....school us on your product's ROI winking smiley (you've got the competitive FUD down perfect though.)


So, just how much cheaper?

My post insinuate's? Is there a possessive case for 'insinuates'?
I speak many languages, and I can't even remember how many I read, but I can't understand what you are attempting to convey.
Nor do I understand the abbreviation FUD.

I guess you fail at communication.

Anybody who troubles themselves to call can get individual parts prices and obviously many do call.


Struggling hard I have a vague idea they you're wondering about where I might have a "source" for tubes...

Let me be clear: uhhhh..............duh. Maybe downstairs in the bin with I dunno 24-26 new tubes. Ya know? Like I make this stuff. You know?
m-a-n-f-a-c-t-u-r-e, you might have heard of it....It a mystical skill some people used to do more frequently, now its almost unheard of. I make both 40 AND 50mm stuff. This week I've spent about 18 hours at either lathe or mill or CNC lathe...(those are what we in the "trade" call machines. They're really amazing things and a skilled person can make all kinds of things not 1 in 1000 can.)



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john vanlandingham
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Re: DMS suspension
November 12, 2011 02:09AM
Quote
HiTempguy
Quote
Jon Burke

What kind of logic? Wellll, shit.....I dunno.....no one's posted anything yet that answer's Grant's question of 'how much to replace'. So I got nuthin' to compare that 159 pounds sterling against.

your post insinuate's that you have a cheaper source, but you haven't posted any factual pricing yet. Come on John, you're a better sales guy than that....school us on your product's ROI winking smiley (you've got the competitive FUD down perfect though.)


So, just how much cheaper?

I've been waiting a while to post on this subject. All I know, is that in over 30 events we bent a DMS strut once, maybe twice... and the PGT car we were in wasn't exactly slow. Not "fast" as I would define fast, but fast enough (especially in the rough, were we excelled) and the DMS tended to soak it up.

This isn't to defend DMS, but I've had experience with them and they work. $5k worth of work? I dunno. How much is that to replace; Probably best to just buy a whole new strut, so probably $1k (wild-azz guesstimate, so call me on it if you will). To me, $5k seems worth it when all of the other brands either break (hotbits) or need development work (JVL). John, it seems like you do have a really good product, but unfortunately (for somebody like myself), I can't be sending it back and forth across the border (I'll ask Tony how much shipping was when I see him next weekend) for upgrading (and I don't know how you operate on "upgrading" stuff, presumably you are still charging to fix the suspension, so the price of what I'd consider your stuff to be "off the shelf" is higher than the initial purchase price).

As far as I am concerned, considering Mark-Jennings Bates came 5th overall in a fairly stock STi on K-Sports at the PFR regional (depending on how rough Defi was this year, PFR is probably the roughest event in Canada), everyone that is slower than him should be running those. And they cost $1500 new and something like $160 to replace the insert :p

And finally, just like punctures, drivers who destroy suspension bits like posted typically are the same ones who constantly bitch about punctures. If they focused on a better, cleaner line rather than driving straight through the ditch, they'd be easier on their car and have their parts survive longer, as well as gaining the necessary experience to be "fast". Obviously, a different story when we talk about Foust, uh, but at the pointy end of the field why the f*&k would you run on club-spec rally suspension?! But I'm sure the collective rally wisdom on these boards trumps my piddly experience smileys with beer

Pretty interesting that you've decided my stuff "needs development work" and that you presume how I make accommodation for those who want or need changes.
Very ironic when I've been presents and seen the DMSs straight out of the box , units SWORN TO BE ready to go, be wrong in sometimes small degrees, sometimes fatal ways--like the gap between the ears simply too wide. The Old Original Dave Clark was DMS North America before he nearly banrupted himself dealing with DMS issues---which of course were ALWAYS "installer error" according to jamie Drummund.
ALWAYS installer error.

Difference is when I don't have a car here I discuss with guys potential problems stemming from not having whatever obscure thing they have and discuss ways we can avoid problems, and make it easier for them.

And highly ironic that you go on to say some people just smash up things, tires, struts etc..and there I agree, some people are simply savages and will destroy anything.

Tell me, how many DMS or Rsspsspspp or Hotbitch or whatever customers get to break up the cost of purchase into 2 or 3 or 4 chunks to spread the pain? How many do you think get to swap out springs for the UPS cost alone? Guess as a percentage.

Or do you want multiple choice?
OK multiple choice!
0.0001 to 0.00015%
0.00016 to 0.0009%
Greater than 0.001

Do you want to venture a guess how many JVAB customers get the chance to make installment purchase?

I'm not going to sit and argue with you because its flat stupid. Tony bought a car with my stuff which had to have been 5-6 years old or more, had NOTHING that could be recognized as grease inside and had obviously been used hard a lot.

He wanted it serviced so he sent it Postes Canada.


You characterizing that he had to pay some postage on them to send them down for service---after 5-6 years and neglect---as some sort of negative is, well pretty gawd damn silly ..I'll post piccies.

Besides isn't DMS somewhere in some obscure place east of where Canada ends?? St Matthieu de Beloile, Quebec sounds like all US customers would have to deal with a customs service and idiot UPS or Fed-ex in and out and if anybody is stupider than "Home-land Security" it has to be Customs Canada. Why didn't you complain about that?

I'm tired and don't want to argue especially when you post things so slanted purposely.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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