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FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)

Posted by HiTempguy 
john vanlandingham
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 10:02AM
Quote
Andrew_Frick
So are the weld nuts John posted legal? The drawing seems to indicate that the weld nuts pass through the entire tube?

I have some of the McMaster Carr ones that are really nice but they seem kinda short.

Run them in from both sides.



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heymagic
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 10:46AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Andrew_Frick
So are the weld nuts John posted legal? The drawing seems to indicate that the weld nuts pass through the entire tube?

I have some of the McMaster Carr ones that are really nice but they seem kinda short.

Run them in from both sides.

Not the correct answer.
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 10:54AM
Quote
heymagic
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Andrew_Frick
So are the weld nuts John posted legal? The drawing seems to indicate that the weld nuts pass through the entire tube?

I have some of the McMaster Carr ones that are really nice but they seem kinda short.

Run them in from both sides.

Not the correct answer.

Them's fightin words!



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NoCoast
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 02:37PM
I have a box of the mcmaster ones and they seem pretty insufficient for mounting the seat bracket to the transverse support. I have a length of tubing that has an id correct for tapping to a... Well, I don't recall what size. But bushores method was my plan probably.



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phlat65
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 04:13PM
I get my weld nuts from Derik, I will ask him where he gets them, the sholders are like 3/16 thick on the M8 and M10, and the body's have .120" or so wall thickness. They are not those cheesy McMaster car ones
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heymagic
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 07:56PM
Those sound like the ticket Sean. The McMaster ones look a bit on the wimpy side.
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MRWmotorsports
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 09:04PM
I'm curious, why make the transverse bar removeable?

-Martin.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 13, 2012 09:41PM
Evidently nobody has paid any particular attention to OEM seat belt mounts weld nuts.



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HiTempguy
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 02:20AM
Quote
MRWmotorsports
I'm curious, why make the transverse bar removeable?

-Martin.

If I understand your question correctly, my answer (from what I understand):

Because the FIA says it must be done that way.

Considering I started this subject though, I doubt I'm the one to answer your question correctly.
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BJosephD
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 07:01AM
I dont think the idea was to make them removable but more or less increase the chances of complete welds from the seat bar to the bracket then to the body.
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heymagic
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 10:20AM
Quote
MRWmotorsports
I'm curious, why make the transverse bar removeable?

-Martin.

Some FIA seats are side mount and some are bottom mount. A bottom mount seat might not not have room below the cross bar to thread a bolt back up into the seat. So you bolt the seat to the bar and then the bar to the floor. The bolting method also allows (as Brian stated) complete perimeter welding of the mount and doubles the material at the floor , flange on end of tube and a plate welded to the floor.

JV, while I haven't done a study on factory seat mounts the ones I have noticed over the years have always been a nut welded or captured under seat metal, not at all like the McMaster part shown, which looks suitable for mounting truck mirrors. I don't know if it is substantial enough but it certainly doesn't look to be.

There will always be the chance that something 'we' allow will differ greatly than a factory designed and engineered procedure. Maybe that particular mounting systems is adequate with that paticular seat and harness in a certain area of the floor if mounted at 9AM on Wednesday type of deal. When you change any one part of the recipe then the results might not be the same.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 01:43PM
Gene, kinda agree.

That is why I make my own weld nuts with much thicker body, and a larger diameter "washer".. I'm keenly aware we're welding to barely 1mm thin sheetmetal, gotta spread the load.

They're really nice--but I made 'em in M10 and M12



John Vanlandingham
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Dobmaster
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 01:48PM
Wy not simply follow the CARS rules book ? Its quite simple...

Contact your local CARS Technical Director : Darryl Malone technical@carsrally.ca

If your following whats in the CARS rules book..i dont think you need to follow all FIA rules ?

Also...the lower the seat is..the better weigth distribution. Im going as low as i possiblican...and maybe lower ; )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2012 01:55PM by Dobmaster.
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heymagic
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 02:27PM
Quote
Dobmaster
Wy not simply follow the CARS rules book ? Its quite simple...

Contact your local CARS Technical Director : Darryl Malone technical@carsrally.ca

If your following whats in the CARS rules book..i dont think you need to follow all FIA rules ?

Also...the lower the seat is..the better weigth distribution. Im going as low as i possiblican...and maybe lower ; )

From the CARS online rule book : Seat Mounting:
(a)Seats must be such that they are securely attached to the floor of the vehicle in such a manner
| as to prevent the movement of the seat in case of an accident. Effective June 1, 2011 all seats
| must be mounted as per FIA Appendix J, Article 253, Article 16: Seats, Anchorage points and
| Supports

So it would appear he is following the CARS rulebook and apparently FIA rules do matter.

Weight distribution isn't nearly as important as visability in a rally car IMO.
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phlat65
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Re: FIA Approved Seat Mounting Options (CARS)
January 14, 2012 09:00PM
Ohio Nut and Bolt http://www.on-b.com/nuts/rhm.aspx

Inch, and Metric
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