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Pin stand question

Posted by phlat65 
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 10:30AM
What is a good diameter for the pin and tube? I have some left over 1.250 .120 tube, so if I get a 1" OD pin, that gives me .010 clearance, that good?




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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 10:43AM
Quote
phlat65
What is a good diameter for the pin and tube? I have some left over 1.250 .120 tube, so if I get a 1" OD pin, that gives me .010 clearance, that good?

If its clean.

You using a VW Bilstein jack? (You should be) then make it fit the bar sicking outta that. Easier than modding the lack.


John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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slidewayswrx
Patrick Darrow
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slidewayswrx
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 10:50AM
Sean any chance of me getting you to fab up two sets at the same time? Don't see any reason why the stands would need to be different for the two cars. This is a planned mod for the Volvo and things always seem to go better and quicker when doing multiples. Certainly willing to pay market cost.

Did you see that pic that Wyatt posted to Facetube not to long ago?


Zap zap my ass...




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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 10:54AM
Yeah, I could do 2 sets. pic of what?

I am not using that jack John. which cars does it come in? do you have one you could measure the pin on?
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 11:40AM
Quote
slidewayswrx
Did you see that pic that Wyatt posted to Facetube not to long ago?



That's the pic he was talking about.
We have designed and will soon be making and offering our own pin stands for sale. Haven't figured out price point as we're still waiting on the Tig.
Similar to these.
http://www.motorsport-tools.com/4-x-wrc-works-sill-stands-25mm-pin-p-267819.html
[/img]http://espimages.biz/2386/I/550/0/images_k%20606.jpg[/img]


For my car I did them with a 0.75" pin and I think 1" diameter receiver. Dave dropped the Evo on them and both stands are trash. Both bent but didn't completely fail. However, I did finish the break on one of them by hand. We've (aka Mark Malsom) since done a bunch of design and FEA and all that dumb engineering shit. Basically, a 3/4" pin is not sufficient and can fail as low as 1100 lbs depending on design. 7/8" or 1" is better.


Grant Hughes
www.nocoastmotorsports.net
Denver, CO




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Gravel Spray
Peter Van Bogart
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Gravel Spray
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:00PM
7/8" 4130 pin.

You'll want about .060" clearence in the socket, any less than that and you'll be kicking shit and swearing at some point, anymore than .060" and the car will be unstable when on grass/dirt. One extra set in the center of the car is handy for front to rear swaps between stages.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:05PM
Quote
phlat65
Yeah, I could do 2 sets. pic of what?

I am not using that jack John. which cars does it come in? do you have one you could measure the pin on?

Yeah I think I have 3-4 of them here.
They came in OLD Beetles.


John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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slidewayswrx
Patrick Darrow
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slidewayswrx
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:21PM
Sweet Sean! That's great, one less step on this end. I'll need to figure out a few more ways to slow your build down though if I'm to get mine done before you.

The pic that grant posted is indeed the one I was referring too. The look relatively simple yet strong and stable. The tray is a nice touch as well.


Zap zap my ass...
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:28PM
So Peter, 1.125 .095 4130 tube, and a .875 4130 pin gives .060 total, like that? Or the tube .120 bigger to give .060 all the way around and .120 total?
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Gravel Spray
Peter Van Bogart
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Gravel Spray
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 01:03PM
you want .060" or so total.

As for the stands, you could spend hours and hours making them or just buy a nice adjustable set like the ones AC hydrualic makes, cut the cup off the top and weld the pin to it.
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alkun
Albert Kun
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alkun
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 01:52PM
Plus 1 for the adjustable


Looking for Volvo 242? PM me, I probably have a line on one for cheap...
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Gravel Spray
Peter Van Bogart
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Gravel Spray
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:16PM
Quote
alkun
Plus 1 for the adjustable

Very much worth it, low for quicky service or tire changes, way up for heavy service or re-prep.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:24PM
Here's a cheaper option than the AC ones.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_ACHyd1_pg5.htm
$65 a pair instead of $110-180.


Grant Hughes
www.nocoastmotorsports.net
Denver, CO
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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aj_johnson
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:31PM
Quote
NoCoast
Here's a cheaper option than the AC ones.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_ACHyd1_pg5.htm
$65 a pair instead of $110-180.

I read that as $68 ea. ????
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Reamer
Jeff Reamer
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Reamer
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:56PM
Good to know about the .060". I just installed the mounts on the car. I used 1.25" DOM with .120 wall. I was figuring for 1" but sounds like 7/8" will work better. That was good timing!
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 03:07PM
$27.99 a pair. Probably could make them taller with a bit of tube..

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPA5772S5843462501P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 08:27PM
Grant, where did you put the recepticals? Thinking of using the flat area that was for the cladding rivets. It might be a bit too close to the middle...
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
Re: Pin stand question
February 24, 2012 08:38AM
That football shaped spot? Yeah, that's where I put my front ones.
The rears I did behind the door in front of the wheels and at a spot where it would pass through and back into view so I could weld both sides. If that makes sense. It will when you lay under the car.
You can kinda see them here.
http://nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/Merkur/2010Rebuild/29_30Jan2010.jpg


Grant Hughes
www.nocoastmotorsports.net
Denver, CO
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urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Re: Pin stand question
February 24, 2012 11:59AM
off topic - is that the new shop pete?
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BillyElliot
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BillyElliot
Re: Pin stand question
February 26, 2012 03:28PM
Quote
phlat65
$27.99 a pair. Probably could make them taller with a bit of tube..

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPA5772S5843462501P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10

$19.99 at northern tool for the 2 ton models. But these are ~14" height compared to the 19" height of the others which might not require much modifications.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200496971_200496971?cm_mmc=Aggregates-_-Google-_-Auto%20Repair%3EJacks-_-20988

My high lift jack is just under 24" of lift and I use 6 ton Harbor Freight special jack stands that have 24" lift as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 03:30PM by BillyElliot.
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 26, 2012 10:26PM
Mostly done. I need to weld the tube in the rear arter I drop the beam, so I can get to the inner point.

Front


Rear
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sidewaez
Blake Lind
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sidewaez
Re: Pin stand question
February 28, 2012 11:21PM
Adjustable stands sound nice, I have a set of tri-pod adjustable pin stands left over from the gallant but they almost take up the entire bed of my service truck.

I thought they didn't need to be tri-pod because the right and left sides work together.
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 07:48AM
I think I have an easy solution for an adjustable height triangle stand. Stay tuned.
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Gravel Spray
Peter Van Bogart
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Gravel Spray
Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 10:56AM
Nice work Sean.

On the stands, the AC hydrualic ones we use have about an 18" spread between the feet and the adjustable vertical section was solid 1.120" dia, very stable you can beat on the car and it barely moves.

I've worked on a few VSC cars and their SS stands(non-triangle base) are about as scetchy as it gets, flimsy as all hell. One year at Maine while servicing in the grass those boys just about dropped the car on four mechanics while changing the gearbox.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 11:03AM
Quote
Gravel Spray
Nice work Sean.

On the stands, the AC hydrualic ones we use have about an 18" spread between the feet and the adjustable vertical section was solid 1.120" dia, very stable you can beat on the car and it barely moves.

I've worked on a few VSC cars and their SS stands(non-triangle base) are about as scetchy as it gets, flimsy as all hell. One year at Maine while servicing in the grass those boys just about dropped the car on four mechanics while changing the gearbox.

But that's shows good planning, Pete. Drop it on 4 and the weight is spread out more, and it hurts less. If they were manly men they oughtter be able to do single leg presses of 400 lbs x 8 legs= 3200 lbs. No problem.


John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Gravel Spray
Peter Van Bogart
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Gravel Spray
Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 11:23AM
Hahaha. yeah I guess..shit if they wacked the 4 there was still 6 more techs per car anyways.. should still be enough right?
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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phlat65
Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 12:07PM
So Peter I am goint to modify a jack to fit in the pin stand hole, should I make some kind of lock to keep the jack from getting spit out with the car up? seems like it may do that. I was thinking a simple tab on the pin with a corresponding receptical on the car that you rotate the jack into after the jack is inserted in the hole. Am I just over thinking it?
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Gravel Spray
Peter Van Bogart
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Gravel Spray
Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 12:20PM
I think you're over thinking it. Biggest thing is to have a good parking brake to keep the car from moving.

What type of pin jack?

It's interesting, years ago there was an artical in racecar engineering about the Xsara wrc car(I think, or the F2 Xsara), the head of engineering stated that their in car jack was the trickest part of the entire program. Some type of in-house engineered and built high ratio hydrualic pin jack, 3 pumps or something. They were talking about the importance of very quick front to rear tire swaps.
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EricW
Eric Wages
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EricW
Re: Pin stand question
March 02, 2012 08:51PM
Quote
Gravel Spray
I think you're over thinking it. Biggest thing is to have a good parking brake to keep the car from moving.

What type of pin jack?

It's interesting, years ago there was an artical in racecar engineering about the Xsara wrc car(I think, or the F2 Xsara), the head of engineering stated that their in car jack was the trickest part of the entire program. Some type of in-house engineered and built high ratio hydrualic pin jack, 3 pumps or something. They were talking about the importance of very quick front to rear tire swaps.

I'm certainly interested in pin jacks too - most everything that I can find seems to have square pins and nothing round. Is there a secret year, vehicle out there that has the magic stuff?
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sidewaez
Blake Lind
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sidewaez
Re: Pin stand question
March 03, 2012 01:14AM
I have one from a vanagon thats crank operated and has a round pin, also says bilstein on it.

Do I use that one or hold out for one from a beetle?
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