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Pin stand question

Posted by phlat65 
phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:30PM
What is a good diameter for the pin and tube? I have some left over 1.250 .120 tube, so if I get a 1" OD pin, that gives me .010 clearance, that good?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:43PM
Quote
phlat65
What is a good diameter for the pin and tube? I have some left over 1.250 .120 tube, so if I get a 1" OD pin, that gives me .010 clearance, that good?

If its clean.

You using a VW Bilstein jack? (You should be) then make it fit the bar sicking outta that. Easier than modding the lack.



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slidewayswrx
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:50PM
Sean any chance of me getting you to fab up two sets at the same time? Don't see any reason why the stands would need to be different for the two cars. This is a planned mod for the Volvo and things always seem to go better and quicker when doing multiples. Certainly willing to pay market cost.

Did you see that pic that Wyatt posted to Facetube not to long ago?



Zap zap my ass...
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 12:54PM
Yeah, I could do 2 sets. pic of what?

I am not using that jack John. which cars does it come in? do you have one you could measure the pin on?
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 01:40PM
Quote
slidewayswrx
Did you see that pic that Wyatt posted to Facetube not to long ago?



That's the pic he was talking about.
We have designed and will soon be making and offering our own pin stands for sale. Haven't figured out price point as we're still waiting on the Tig.
Similar to these.
http://www.motorsport-tools.com/4-x-wrc-works-sill-stands-25mm-pin-p-267819.html
[/img]http://espimages.biz/2386/I/550/0/images_k%20606.jpg[/img]


For my car I did them with a 0.75" pin and I think 1" diameter receiver. Dave dropped the Evo on them and both stands are trash. Both bent but didn't completely fail. However, I did finish the break on one of them by hand. We've (aka Mark Malsom) since done a bunch of design and FEA and all that dumb engineering shit. Basically, a 3/4" pin is not sufficient and can fail as low as 1100 lbs depending on design. 7/8" or 1" is better.



Grant Hughes
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Denver, CO
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:00PM
7/8" 4130 pin.

You'll want about .060" clearence in the socket, any less than that and you'll be kicking shit and swearing at some point, anymore than .060" and the car will be unstable when on grass/dirt. One extra set in the center of the car is handy for front to rear swaps between stages.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:05PM
Quote
phlat65
Yeah, I could do 2 sets. pic of what?

I am not using that jack John. which cars does it come in? do you have one you could measure the pin on?

Yeah I think I have 3-4 of them here.
They came in OLD Beetles.



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slidewayswrx
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:21PM
Sweet Sean! That's great, one less step on this end. I'll need to figure out a few more ways to slow your build down though if I'm to get mine done before you.

The pic that grant posted is indeed the one I was referring too. The look relatively simple yet strong and stable. The tray is a nice touch as well.



Zap zap my ass...
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 02:28PM
So Peter, 1.125 .095 4130 tube, and a .875 4130 pin gives .060 total, like that? Or the tube .120 bigger to give .060 all the way around and .120 total?
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 03:03PM
you want .060" or so total.

As for the stands, you could spend hours and hours making them or just buy a nice adjustable set like the ones AC hydrualic makes, cut the cup off the top and weld the pin to it.
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alkun
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 03:52PM
Plus 1 for the adjustable
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 04:16PM
Quote
alkun
Plus 1 for the adjustable

Very much worth it, low for quicky service or tire changes, way up for heavy service or re-prep.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 04:24PM
Here's a cheaper option than the AC ones.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_ACHyd1_pg5.htm
$65 a pair instead of $110-180.



Grant Hughes
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aj_johnson
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 04:31PM
Quote
NoCoast
Here's a cheaper option than the AC ones.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_ACHyd1_pg5.htm
$65 a pair instead of $110-180.

I read that as $68 ea. ????
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Reamer
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 04:56PM
Good to know about the .060". I just installed the mounts on the car. I used 1.25" DOM with .120 wall. I was figuring for 1" but sounds like 7/8" will work better. That was good timing!



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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 05:07PM
$27.99 a pair. Probably could make them taller with a bit of tube..

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPA5772S5843462501P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 23, 2012 10:27PM
Grant, where did you put the recepticals? Thinking of using the flat area that was for the cladding rivets. It might be a bit too close to the middle...
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: Pin stand question
February 24, 2012 10:38AM
That football shaped spot? Yeah, that's where I put my front ones.
The rears I did behind the door in front of the wheels and at a spot where it would pass through and back into view so I could weld both sides. If that makes sense. It will when you lay under the car.
You can kinda see them here.
http://nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/Merkur/2010Rebuild/29_30Jan2010.jpg



Grant Hughes
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urr
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urr
Re: Pin stand question
February 24, 2012 01:59PM
off topic - is that the new shop pete?
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Re: Pin stand question
February 26, 2012 05:28PM
Quote
phlat65
$27.99 a pair. Probably could make them taller with a bit of tube..

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPA5772S5843462501P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10

$19.99 at northern tool for the 2 ton models. But these are ~14" height compared to the 19" height of the others which might not require much modifications.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200496971_200496971?cm_mmc=Aggregates-_-Google-_-Auto%20Repair%3EJacks-_-20988

My high lift jack is just under 24" of lift and I use 6 ton Harbor Freight special jack stands that have 24" lift as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 05:30PM by BillyElliot.
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 27, 2012 12:26AM
Mostly done. I need to weld the tube in the rear arter I drop the beam, so I can get to the inner point.

Front


Rear
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sidewaez
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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 01:21AM
Adjustable stands sound nice, I have a set of tri-pod adjustable pin stands left over from the gallant but they almost take up the entire bed of my service truck.

I thought they didn't need to be tri-pod because the right and left sides work together.
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 09:48AM
I think I have an easy solution for an adjustable height triangle stand. Stay tuned.
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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 12:56PM
Nice work Sean.

On the stands, the AC hydrualic ones we use have about an 18" spread between the feet and the adjustable vertical section was solid 1.120" dia, very stable you can beat on the car and it barely moves.

I've worked on a few VSC cars and their SS stands(non-triangle base) are about as scetchy as it gets, flimsy as all hell. One year at Maine while servicing in the grass those boys just about dropped the car on four mechanics while changing the gearbox.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 01:03PM
Quote
Gravel Spray
Nice work Sean.

On the stands, the AC hydrualic ones we use have about an 18" spread between the feet and the adjustable vertical section was solid 1.120" dia, very stable you can beat on the car and it barely moves.

I've worked on a few VSC cars and their SS stands(non-triangle base) are about as scetchy as it gets, flimsy as all hell. One year at Maine while servicing in the grass those boys just about dropped the car on four mechanics while changing the gearbox.

But that's shows good planning, Pete. Drop it on 4 and the weight is spread out more, and it hurts less. If they were manly men they oughtter be able to do single leg presses of 400 lbs x 8 legs= 3200 lbs. No problem.



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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 01:23PM
Hahaha. yeah I guess..shit if they wacked the 4 there was still 6 more techs per car anyways.. should still be enough right?
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 02:07PM
So Peter I am goint to modify a jack to fit in the pin stand hole, should I make some kind of lock to keep the jack from getting spit out with the car up? seems like it may do that. I was thinking a simple tab on the pin with a corresponding receptical on the car that you rotate the jack into after the jack is inserted in the hole. Am I just over thinking it?
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Re: Pin stand question
February 29, 2012 02:20PM
I think you're over thinking it. Biggest thing is to have a good parking brake to keep the car from moving.

What type of pin jack?

It's interesting, years ago there was an artical in racecar engineering about the Xsara wrc car(I think, or the F2 Xsara), the head of engineering stated that their in car jack was the trickest part of the entire program. Some type of in-house engineered and built high ratio hydrualic pin jack, 3 pumps or something. They were talking about the importance of very quick front to rear tire swaps.
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EricW
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Re: Pin stand question
March 02, 2012 10:51PM
Quote
Gravel Spray
I think you're over thinking it. Biggest thing is to have a good parking brake to keep the car from moving.

What type of pin jack?

It's interesting, years ago there was an artical in racecar engineering about the Xsara wrc car(I think, or the F2 Xsara), the head of engineering stated that their in car jack was the trickest part of the entire program. Some type of in-house engineered and built high ratio hydrualic pin jack, 3 pumps or something. They were talking about the importance of very quick front to rear tire swaps.

I'm certainly interested in pin jacks too - most everything that I can find seems to have square pins and nothing round. Is there a secret year, vehicle out there that has the magic stuff?
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sidewaez
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Re: Pin stand question
March 03, 2012 03:14AM
I have one from a vanagon thats crank operated and has a round pin, also says bilstein on it.

Do I use that one or hold out for one from a beetle?
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