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VW Golf Rally Build

Posted by charles.edge.401 
charles.edge.401
Charles Edge
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VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 03:05PM
So I got a 2000 Golf GL that somebody dropped a 1.8T in and that conversion gave me the idea...why not try to to build a Golf that meets or exceeds the ability of every other Mk4 Golf out there in terms of handling, speed and overall toughness? I dug into rally at the advice of a buddy and was shocked at the incredible shit that these cars can do. So I am looking for advice before I sink more money into this car. I've been driving trails around here (SC, they are all hard pack dirt and not to to rough on my suspension) and trying to find other places to get drive time so I got that covered. I have been trying to sift through all of the bullshit about optimal ride height, suspension type (I have a Bilstein coiover kit on the car now and don't think it will hold up for my end result on this vehicle), reinforcments to the car and am looking for advice on that. I hate to be that newb on a site like this but as far as VW's go...there isn't a lot of stuff out there about rallying...cause all the tuners do piddly ass street shit...Any body strengthing advice would be appreciated. As would ideas for the initial build. Yes...I feel completely out of my league. Thanks
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Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 03:16PM
1) read the faq/rules/sticky/whatever.
2) for most people here, "rally" means paying entry fees and competing, trying to see who can drive fastest through the woods in organized events - not dicking around on back roads for shits and giggles. If you're up-front with your intent for the car, you'll get better answers.



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2012 03:16PM by Aaron Luptak.
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charles.edge.401
Charles Edge
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 03:44PM
Good call. Like I said, or I thought I said, I am looking to be able to enter a few of the Rally America events in the next couple of years. Dicking around wasn't exactly on the plate. I am trying to build this thing right to actually rally (on a course, at an event...as in seriouslyrally...) with it. That was the idea. Next time I'll be more specific.
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BillyElliot
Billy Elliot Mann
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 05:17PM
If you're looking to run Rally America. You can't run the turbo. You need to start out in a naturally aspirated 2WD or AWD vehicle.

You're free to go play in NASA to your heart's content.

It's been said that starting out in a non turbo car gives you better driving skills since you don't just drive corners slow and mash the gas between them. Pick your poison though.

As far as exceeding MK4 golfs out there. There aren't many. Most everyone is running MK1-3. And they don't have much done to them either and they'll easily stomp cars that are built better or have an extra set of drive wheels.
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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 05:45PM
i dunno too much about Mk4s. The only one I've ever raced (a Jetta) was a foul-handling pig. That was probably because the suspension wasn't set up right though.

For rally, I'd cut off those stupid barrel-spring perches and the stock skinny rear towers and put in a custom rear tower with room for a real coilover.

Dunno about the front.



Self-righteous douche canoe
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BJosephD
Brian j Dyer
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 05:48PM
The best thing you could do with that MK4 is to sell it. you can reinvent the wheel but don't be surprised when you find a much older/lighter VW on your tail. Buy a built MK2 and run your first event already!
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Andrew_Frick
Andrew Frick
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 06:16PM
Where in South Carolina are you?
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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 08:02PM
Quote
BJosephD
The best thing you could do with that MK4 is to sell it. you can reinvent the wheel but don't be surprised when you find a much older/lighter VW on your tail. Buy a built MK2 and run your first event already!

Well, first of all, everyone hates being told "sell it and get something else" when they come to ask questions. And secondly, the Mk4 does have a legit rally pedigree. They've been raced a lot in Europe, and VWMS used a make a kit car version for rally.

In practice I don't know how well they did nor what was involved in the rally prep. I'd hate to turn away a possible rallyist though just because of orneryness though.


I think Bildon may have some info on the kitcar. The old VWMS site took down the links to their pdfs so unless someone stashed them they're gone.



Self-righteous douche canoe
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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 08:02PM
There are a couple of mk ivs - Chris/Andrew Havas and Mike Hordjik. Google for the Havas build. Hordjik's swapped out the rear suspension with something else. Havas Car ran very well at rally Tennessee before the engine caught fire. Cars ran in tdi versions in Brit championship in the day.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 10:21PM
Quote
charles.edge.401
Good call. Like I said, or I thought I said, I am looking to be able to enter a few of the Rally America events in the next couple of years. Dicking around wasn't exactly on the plate. I am trying to build this thing right to actually rally (on a course, at an event...as in seriouslyrally...) with it. That was the idea. Next time I'll be more specific.

Hi Charles, since you siad you have a turbo, and rally America, you should know that the OKW at Rally Americar has determined that as a newbular noob in rally you may without let or hinder built a full spec F2 kit car type Golf with 240-260 PS and everything will be fine, but as soon as you have a turbo, even one as microscopically small as the KKK 0,3 on your 1,8 Golf that all kinds of unimaginable cataclysms will befall the earth.

Heere are some actual clips from the last time a person was allowed to have a turbo ---completely stock, on a rally car at their first event:
Actual footage:

<object width="480" height="360"><param name="movie" value="

?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="


So, you want to kill everybody for miles around?
THINK of the CHILDREN FOR FAWKSSAKE!!!!!!!



Or, since you're almost in the belly of the beast, do NASA events, then everything is miraculously honky dory.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 10:47PM
Quote
hoche
i dunno too much about Mk4s. The only one I've ever raced (a Jetta) was a foul-handling pig. That was probably because the suspension wasn't set up right though.

For rally, I'd cut off those stupid barrel-spring perches and the stock skinny rear towers and put in a custom rear tower with room for a real coilover.

Dunno about the front.

I do, its a bitch. They went to more or less the same thing that is on the nice Xrattys, Sierras, Escort Cosworths etc. Strut body pokes into the knuckle and it pinched...like this:


Here's Ford Sierra 4x4 stuff---same idea--same diameter


Nothing wrong as an OEM design, just makes it pickier when going to longer coilover springs..

It seems the Nemenski continue with "brilliant" engineering ideas and on an annoying number of things from der Busndesrepublik is see a little area in the strut dody that is flat---right about where the heel/tire is---I guess clearance is tight---!!!! This means wheel chice must be done carefully-
--OR some tactical backdating to the conventional "ear" type struts..

In the rear, absolutely there needs to be a buldge in the inner arch to clear coilovers...

New Beetle is this same stuff, and I just did a set of gravel suspenders for one of dems.

At least they finally got rid of the bicycle sized bearings on the rear spindle...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 18, 2012 11:34PM
Quote
BJosephD
The best thing you could do with that MK4 is to sell it. you can reinvent the wheel but don't be surprised when you find a much older/lighter VW on your tail. Buy a built MK2 and run your first event already!

VW did quite well against zero competition with the Golf II in the wider world.

They did quite well with stiff competition in F2 Kit Cars--MkIV..

Stripped for rally there's proably not 20 lbs difference. Its been pretty dry in the Rally Car Spare Parts Storage Depots that some bitter cynics call "Junk Yards" when it comes to MkII stuff. Quite thin.

not to mention the constant chronic weaknesses of the MkIIs in the suspension/driveline.

If he was going to sell it then at least recommend a car that can be made strong for just fractions of the cost of any Golf and has a big torquey motor:





or one of these...quicker stock than a modded Golf...


Then he can do what those guys are doing and i garauntee you it's more laughs for way cheaper---and easier to make reliable.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 19, 2012 01:04AM
John do the guy a faver and show him what a good looking xratty looks like



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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 19, 2012 10:01AM
Thanks AJ!
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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: VW Golf Rally Build
October 19, 2012 02:54PM




"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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