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911 Carrera RallyCross Project

Posted by BRAIDusa 
BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Super Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
February 24, 2014 03:59PM
Quote
corax
Quote
BRAIDusa
My bumper appears to have a threaded hole for a tow hook (no pic, sorry) so I'm intrigued to see if I can find something to screw into that. Any ideas? Something like this perhaps?


If you decide to rely on that type of tow point, make sure the part that it threads into (body side) is reinforced and up to the task. The eyelet itself should be fine for a straight forward pull (no sideway or angle pulls with these), but I don't think they're meant for much more than a short distance across flat smooth asphalt. We've seen several of them rip right out of the sheet metal, even on light pulls in the dirt, and when the mount lets go the tow strap will recoil like a rubber band, flinging that metal eyelet right at your would-be rescuers.

Thanks. I did wonder.



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Super Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 03, 2014 01:03PM
Can you believe the RallyCross got cancelled due to a flood? I thought this was rally!! Actually, I have no interest in driving through a flood but I did get to work on the car a little. Not much, mainly because I got distracted by this:



It's a 300hp ex-Speed World Challenge Focus and its going to keep us very busy for a while, both inside the shop and on track. If you want to learn more here's it's build thread: Speed World Challenge Focus Restoration


Now, back to the Porsche. Made some progress with the rear tow hook. Bought a cheap dangly one from China. It doesn't thread into the bumper but a long M12 bolt should solve that.




The driver's door pocket started to fall off a few weeks ago so I can take a hint. Couple of pounds saved.








Picked up some extended front control arms from a fellow Pelican to add camber one day.






Bought a decibel app for my phone. This is at idle! Got to 113db at 80mph. Think we need some ear protection.






Hopefully the next event doesn't get cancelled and my wife doesn't make me go to that wedding. Stay tuned.


: )



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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Andrew_Frick
Andrew Frick
Junior Moderator
Location: Greenville, SC
Join Date: 05/18/2007
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 684

Rally Car:
Rally Spec Ford Focus


Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 11, 2014 07:58AM
Awesome pick up on the focus word challenge car. That was a nice car. I believe it was originally built by someone associated withe Team O'neil. It started life as the Air Force Reserve car and then Rob Holland bought it.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 11, 2014 01:16PM
Oh. Dear.




Oh. Dear.

Been nice knowing you.

(Odd but just got email from a poor bastid in Canada who had a similar bad design. This being the second time:



Correct idea. Spherical bearing in the arm itself, not hanging the fawk out waiting to shear right off.



OOOPs



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2014 01:21PM by john vanlandingham.
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Super Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 11, 2014 04:22PM
Quote
Andrew_Frick
Awesome pick up on the focus word challenge car. That was a nice car. I believe it was originally built by someone associated withe Team O'neil. It started life as the Air Force Reserve car and then Rob Holland bought it.

Thanks Andrew. That's good to know. I'll have to chase up someone at O'Neil's.



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Super Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 11, 2014 04:26PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Oh. Dear.




Oh. Dear.

Been nice knowing you.

(Odd but just got email from a poor bastid in Canada who had a similar bad design. This being the second time:



Correct idea. Spherical bearing in the arm itself, not hanging the fawk out waiting to shear right off.



OOOPs

I did wonder John. Does not seem quite as sturdy as the ones on our World Challenge Focus.





Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 11, 2014 07:14PM
Paul that piccie I posted was from a Fuckus...2nd time. Horrible design...which loooked just like the junk you ust posted. Somebody just doesn't understand...

Spherical bearing, not rod end hanging out...
It doesn't matter if we think it should be OK, or we understand why its not, or we don't understand why its fine to use rod end lake that on inboard pick up..but not on outboard end.
It is.
Its nutso. just a serious failure waiting to happen ..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Location: La Belle Province, Montreal
Join Date: 03/13/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 578

Rally Car:
Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun!


Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 13, 2014 10:32AM
John,

Can't see your images for some reason...

Matt
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 13, 2014 11:24AM
Quote
Mad Matt F
John,

Can't see your images for some reason...

Matt
Do you remember in the great movie Night On Earth in the vignette in Rome where Roberto Begnini is the taxi driver and he's cool, so cool he has his sun-glasses on at 0130...and his fare, the preiest suggests he take off his sun-glasses..which he does and shouts "I can see!! Its a miracle! Oh you've cured me....."

Do you have your sun-glasses on cause you're so cool?

I can see them.. Loook.

Seee?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Mad Matt F
Matt Follett
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Location: La Belle Province, Montreal
Join Date: 03/13/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 578

Rally Car:
Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun!


Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 13, 2014 08:32PM
Glasses? you mean, oooohhhh I can see.

Wait, no, nope not there...

I get a broken image icon, and when I look at the bit of code in "inspect element" I get "can't load image". Actually the code looks like something from gmail... did you try to post right from a gmail account?

Might be just me



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2014 08:34PM by Mad Matt F.
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egdinger
Eric Dinger
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Location: PDX
Join Date: 05/07/2012
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Posts: 14


Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 13, 2014 08:44PM
Not you just you, it looks like John linked to a file in his gmail inbox, so he can see if fine, but no one else can.

Quote
john vanlandingham
we don't understand why its fine to use rod end lake that on inboard pick up..but not on outboard end.
Why is this anyways?
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Godlike Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 13, 2014 10:34PM
Quote
egdinger
Not you just you, it looks like John linked to a file in his gmail inbox, so he can see if fine, but no one else can.

Quote
john vanlandingham
we don't understand why its fine to use rod end lake that on inboard pick up..but not on outboard end.
Why is this anyways?

Yeah the guy in Ontario mailed a piccie or 2 and I don't know how to post them but all it is is a lower control arm with a rod end hanging out prior to breaking, and a broken rod end---second time--the point was to illustrate graphically what the inevitable fate is and the solution...

Sometimes---OFTEN and IN THE END our "understanding" is a luxury that is fine to indulge in but sometimes we ought to be able to trust others who have more knowledge and or experience..
or if we can't do that at least when we see something like the Focus with a rod end breaking it right off twice when we see something with same design even if we don't understand everything, we ought to be able to say "Derp derp! I dunno, that other one done just like this broke clean off...derp! derp! I dun't unnderstand why it works as an inner but shore nuf seems NOT to work outboard....but a plain spherical bearing does.."
Think thru: say we don't understand why no go rod end outer, and we make them like Ford and everybody else spherical bearing in the arm itself and then we use them and they dont shear off.

Did it matter if we understood everything?

Conversely say we "discuss" and"think" we understand, and run the bad way and it shears off for Paul--and he wads the car up real good..
Did our belief that we understood change anything?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
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Location: SLC
Join Date: 02/15/2008
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Civic...



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 13, 2014 11:37PM
I think it's obvious why a spherical on the outside is better than a rod end on the outside:



There's just a hell of a lot more material there to bend/break/etc.

Some musing on why the inner rod end is ok-

Consider driving straight into a big honkin' rock with a front tire. Most of the vertical force should be handled by the strut. But you've still got a big rearward force on the end of the TCA.

My first thought is that, assuming the compression strut mounting is solid, the TCA wants to pivot around that, acts as a lever, and you get a much bigger forwards force on the inner rod end.

Since the inner rod end is ok, this clearly isn't the case.

The Ford (and copies) solution uses a bushing for the connection from the TCA to the compression strut:


Easiest answer I can think of is that in the situation I describe, enough force is dissipated in compressing that bushing that stuff doesn't bend. Is that the real answer? I dunno.

(pics from http://passionford.com/forum/traders-parts-for-sale/394642-wrc-grpa-tcas-and-comp-struts.html)



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 17, 2014 01:04PM
The spring is a torsion bar, yeah? So the control arm is pushing up on the body on the inside, against pushing "down" on the upright's end.

I wouldn't want to put a rod end under those kind of side loads.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Super Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
April 22, 2014 01:35PM
Been working more on our World Challenge Focus than the 911 lately so not many exciting updates to report.

We did get the rear tow hook on with the help of an m12x1.75 bolt.








It's that time of year again; time for Cars and Coffee. In SE Michigan we are almost spoilt for choice now. I could hit these in one morning if I got up early enough. These pictures however, are from two consecutive Saturdays because I'm a lazy bugger sometimes.

Pasteiner's at Woodward and 14 Mile:




PCA-RSR at Zingerman's Roadhouse in Ann Arbor:









JD Indoor Karting in Novi:





Three very different crowds with three different sets of cars but the 911 is always popular. And yes, we put the summer tires on, perhaps a little optimistically.


We also had a go at trying to isolate the rear leak. Suspecting the rear window seals we made some rain.









and found it leaks in at the corners where everyone said it would.

[url=

]It's raining part 2 - YouTube[/url]




Not to follow everyone's advice we slapped on some silicone around the seal as a "temporary" fix. To be fair we are considering a Lexan replacement so are no about to pull this one out to replace the seals right now.


This weekend is the RallyCross that was cancelled due to flooding last month. Feels like I haven't raced for decades. can't wait.



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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