Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Senior Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
Hello all, finally made my way over here. Been thinking about an XR car for some racing fun. Dr. JVL has long tried to convince me to consider an XR as a platform. So, my question, what non-turbo engines are being implanted with success? I tried a search and didn't see much on the topic, apologies if I missed it. Thanks!
Dan |
Scott Manley Scott Manley Mod Moderator Location: Spokompton, WA Join Date: 01/03/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 226 Rally Car: XR4Ti |
Well the new Duratec would be a great engine. Or a the Stock 2.3L rebuilt with roundy-round parts, like a midget setup - 12:1 flat tops, 5.7" rods, lightened crank, head porting and a cam with stupid amounts of lift and overlap; and 9,000 rpm limit.
Zetecs have also been tried, as have 5.0L v8's -big waste of time. Scott Manley Spokane, WA 86' XR4Ti 37 |
Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Senior Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
|
Phlyan Pan Travis Sleight Senior Moderator Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Join Date: 12/16/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 45 Rally Car: Moved on....wasn't much of a rally car anyway |
|
NoCoast Grant Hughes Godlike Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Quad4Rods in Denver makes a bellhousing for T5 to Duratec for around $400.
My thought is that if you are going to go non-turbo go with something light and capable. Duratec fits that bill. Maybe the SHO 3.0L V6, which should still fit in G2 and some of them we're made with aluminum blocks I believe. And they're capable of over 300 hp. Of course, the best thing is to just stick with the stock turbo engine. You'll spend lots of money just trying to get a NA engine to the same power as the stock turbo one. And who wants a 2800 lb. NA car? Grant Hughes |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Zagato78 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Hello all, finally made my way over here. Been > thinking about an XR car for some racing fun. Dr. > JVL has long tried to convince me to consider an > XR as a platform. So, my question, what non-turbo > engines are being implanted with success? I tried > a search and didn't see much on the topic, > apologies if I missed it. Thanks! > > Dan Hi Dan! Been a while! Welcome! Dan I stripped down to empty the Duratec I got for the Capri project and Seattle Scott and I lifted it into the empty engine bay. Fits fantastic. So with simple Soooper Bitchin engine mounts like I make for all rwd cars it would be a snap to mount the Duratec engine. BUT!!!!!! About half the reason I push Xratties and Volvos is cause a guy can reasonably get started with an un-opened engine WHICH WILL MAKE ENOUGH FOOT/LBS AND HAVE A BROAD ENOUGH POWERBAND THAT HE CAN STILL BE COMPETITIVE and have money left over he would otherwise be spending on building hot motor. All the stuff we do to the motor is to try and make more ft/lbs if we CAN and more BHP if the ft/lb limit has beed reached----the we buy expensive CLOSE RATIO GEARS to keep that narrow powerband motor we built up on the boil and then we buy ring and pinions to multiply TORQUE. All that is far less critical with a magic turbo, specially the right turbo bolted on. So in the end a guy can get going soooner with the 2.3 SOHC. The standard box will do but a Borg Warner T5 from SOME V8 Fords, those with the 2.95 first gear, or the gears from ANY Camaro/Firebird V8 in a Ford case (and if you could use the Camaro tailshaft housing the gearlever ends up in the correct place) is a much better set when going to a shorter 4.3 diff ratio. The diff I'm setting up to use is the Toyota Supra MkIII or "MA70" diff. Some, I think its the automatic turbos, and the non turbo manual boxes, come with a 4.3 and most have a big strong easy to set up multi-plate LSD. Search around here for photos of the diff stuff and the already done sump guard mounts and supports. And look for the Ford Motorsport manuals here in a post from Paddy, we scanned in like 300-400 pages of stuff really worthwhile to look at. Again, welcome aboard and get going! John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
NoCoast Wrote:
> My thought is that if you are going to go > non-turbo go with something light and capable. > Duratec fits that bill. Maybe the SHO 3.0L V6, > which should still fit in G2 and some of them > we're made with aluminum blocks I believe. And > they're capable of over 300 hp. IIRC, the original intention for the SHO engine was for the Scorpio, so popping it into an XR4Ti isn't too far off the mark. All V6 SHO are iron block, aluminum head. They're also *huge*, larger externally than the 3.8l pushrod engine (which is a 90degree V6 instead of 60degree) They're also about as heavy as the later pushrod V8 engines. Why reinvent the wheel? Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Senior Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
|
NoCoast Grant Hughes Godlike Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
"In 1995, Volvo introduced the 850 T-5R with a 2.3-liter, five-cylinder DOHC aluminum engine with 240 horsepower. That engine had interior piston cooling nozzles, sodium filled exhaust valves, water cooled turbo housing and a microprocessor-controlled multi-point direct port fuel injection system"
"Volvo engines recently found an application in the Ford Focus ST in which the Ford Focus shares its platform structure with the Volvo S40." Which means the Volvo 5 cylinder engine, is now also a Ford. Kinda like the Hyundai with a Evo 4G63 with a Hyundai valve cover. And wasn't the 5 cylinder Volvo engine created from the castings of the old Audi 20 valve 5 cylinder engines? Which is still in my mind one of the best sounding engines ever when fully built. Grant Hughes |
Carl S Carl Seidel Mod Moderator Location: Fe Mtn, MI Join Date: 02/10/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 765 Rally Car: 1993 honderp |
NoCoast Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > And wasn't the 5 cylinder Volvo engine created > from the castings of the old Audi 20 valve 5 > cylinder engines? Which happens to be eerily similar to the VW 16v, just with an extra cylinder... (and also piston squirters and sodium filled exhaust valves) Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2007 06:36PM by Carl S. |
|
|
gemorris Glenwood E Morris Mega Moderator Location: Raleigh NC Join Date: 05/02/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 40 Rally Car: none yet |
I don't really see the argument for going from an oversquare iron/iron turbo 4 to an undersquare alum/alum turbo 5.
Yes, the weight will probably be less, marginally. You'll never be able to rev it as high. But then again, 4 valves per cylinder and a fuel system that uses something resembling a real computer. JVL, opinions? I know you've got em. Is it a dead end, or just more trouble than the potential gains are worth? I'm "getting" the point of a simple iron lump you slap a turbo on and then go worry about all the other million things on the car. |
|
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
NoCoast Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > "In 1995, Volvo introduced the 850 T-5R with a > 2.3-liter, five-cylinder DOHC aluminum engine with > 240 horsepower. That engine had interior piston > cooling nozzles, sodium filled exhaust valves, > water cooled turbo housing and a > microprocessor-controlled multi-point direct port > fuel injection system" Geez, PR hype! Does it also have replaceable bearing shells, shimless connecting rod caps, and a longlife water pump shaft seal? Maybe the pistons are also made from aluminum instead of hewn from stone. > "Volvo engines recently found an application in > the Ford Focus ST in which the Ford Focus shares > its platform structure with the Volvo S40." > > Which means the Volvo 5 cylinder engine, is now > also a Ford. Did they put the FIVE cylinder engine in the Focus, or did they put the 1.9l FOUR cylinder in? > And wasn't the 5 cylinder Volvo engine created > from the castings of the old Audi 20 valve 5 > cylinder engines? Which is still in my mind one > of the best sounding engines ever when fully > built. If it was, the castings got warped. Volvo engines don't look much like anything Audi did except for having the intake on the front/driver's side and the exhaust on the rear/passenger side, and having five cylinders. They did sound great, though, didn't they? Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2007 09:00AM by Pete. |