Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension

Posted by Aaron Luptak 
krisdahl
Kris Dahl
Godlike Moderator
Location: Issaquah, WA
Join Date: 02/13/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 282

Rally Car:
Integra, Civic


Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
November 05, 2014 10:07AM
If you use those spring rates you'll understeer pretty bad.

The fronts shouldn't be much higher than the rears.

We were running 343 fronts and 252 rears.

I'm trying to find notes on how we have the Civic setup. I think it is really similar.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
Godlike Moderator
Location: SLC
Join Date: 02/15/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 776

Rally Car:
Civic...



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
November 05, 2014 10:17AM
I agree that those spring rates seem pretty high - that's just ballpark numbers where I'm planning on starting discussions, not even necessarily buying those.

Kris, 343 lbs front works out to ~145 lbs/in wheel rate. Any chance you've got a ballpark on the motion ratio for the rears with the civic LCA? The .77 that I've calculated is with the DA integra LCA, shock mount is ~1/2" closer to the wheel on the civics so motion ratio should be a little higher.



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
reecers
Reece
Professional Moderator
Location: Oklahoma City
Join Date: 03/07/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 161

Rally Car:
1991 Ej20g'd Legacy


Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
November 05, 2014 12:50PM
Quote
krisdahl
If you use those spring rates you'll understeer pretty bad.

The fronts shouldn't be much higher than the rears.

We were running 343 fronts and 252 rears.

I'm trying to find notes on how we have the Civic setup. I think it is really similar.

so where should i look to buy springs for blistein HD setup. Blistein?



I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
Godlike Moderator
Location: SLC
Join Date: 02/15/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 776

Rally Car:
Civic...



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
November 05, 2014 01:15PM
Quote
reecers
Quote
krisdahl
If you use those spring rates you'll understeer pretty bad.

The fronts shouldn't be much higher than the rears.

We were running 343 fronts and 252 rears.

I'm trying to find notes on how we have the Civic setup. I think it is really similar.

so where should i look to buy springs for blistein HD setup. Blistein?

Assuming you're going to run some sort of threaded spring perches (the included perches are made for an OE style spring), choose your favorite maker of 2.5" coilover springs - eibach, hyperco, swift, QA1, etc. I don't remember who JVL uses, nobody I've listed though.



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
reecers
Reece
Professional Moderator
Location: Oklahoma City
Join Date: 03/07/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 161

Rally Car:
1991 Ej20g'd Legacy


Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
November 05, 2014 02:43PM
i like how all honja springs are lowering springs... yay



I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI
Please Login or Register to post a reply
RallySol
Eric Larsen
Junior Moderator
Location: San Mateo, CA
Join Date: 09/05/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 38

Rally Car:
awd '93 Honda del Sol



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
April 25, 2015 11:41AM
Goin' to revive this thread since this is where I'm at with my Honda.

Meausred my spare LCAs last night which appear to be USDM ITR and came up with a .75 motion ratio, 10.0625"/13.40625". Wondering if I missed something since they're supposed to mount the shock closer to the wheel than the DA arms Aaron is using.

Also looking at 350 in/lbs for the front and 250 in/lbs on the rear for springs



KK6EAR
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Senior Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
April 25, 2015 01:23PM
Quote
RallySol
Goin' to revive this thread since this is where I'm at with my Honda.

Meausred my spare LCAs last night which appear to be USDM ITR and came up with a .75 motion ratio, 10.0625"/13.40625". Wondering if I missed something since they're supposed to mount the shock closer to the wheel than the DA arms Aaron is using.

Also looking at 350 in/lbs for the front and 250 in/lbs on the rear for springs


You know every time I see this "motion ratio" thing---and then see spring choices outrageously overboard--like 50% higher than I might expect----and I see it constantly---I have to wonder why the results of peoples calculations are always so far off....

The Bilstein techs whop assemble the stuff I order once ---in seeming frustration I guess--I think he's just had another call from somebody---he asked "Why is it EVERYBODY, EVERY BODY!!! always thinks the need springs and dampers waaaaaaaaaay in excess of what they need? EVERYBODY!!!"

I said "Everybody? Really?"

He went on "Everybody!!! well except desert guys...they have sense."

I meekly asked "Everybody?"

"Yeah Otter-crossers, roadrace guys, street guys, rally guys EVERYBODY!!!!"


Me " even me?"

Him " No no you're the only guy who doesn't. Why's that?"

Me "I guess cause I come from 20 years of bikes on gnarly dirt and I learned suspension is supposed to move, ya know? Like absorb some bumps, maintain grip, I guess"..


Last year i worked with a good, intelligent young engineer, Tony Peto....has a Civic---and I said I'd work with him if we actually sat down and did some measurements---simple tape measure stuff.
Cause as the newscasters in SanFrancisco said about that Korean Airliner:


I'm goona email him and see exactly where we ended up, but I kinda recall it was no more than 225 in front and maybe 185 in rear..
The car worked good


Here's an idea: can you post pretty photo and overlay lengths:

Inner pivot to balljoint and inner pivot to where the fork thing intersects the arm...

Like line A-B overall length, then line A-C to pivot....?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Aaron Luptak
Aaron Luptak
Godlike Moderator
Location: SLC
Join Date: 02/15/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 776

Rally Car:
Civic...



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
April 25, 2015 06:10PM
Quote
RallySol
Meausred my spare LCAs last night which appear to be USDM ITR and came up with a .75 motion ratio, 10.0625"/13.40625".

Quote
jvl
Here's an idea: can you post pretty photo and overlay lengths:

Inner pivot to balljoint and inner pivot to where the fork thing intersects the arm...

Like line A-B overall length, then line A-C to pivot....?

I'll try to get some of these, for the two or three different LCAs that I have. Will be a bit (maybe next weekend?) as I don't have spares (yet) for the parts I actually plan to use.



KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
RallySol
Eric Larsen
Junior Moderator
Location: San Mateo, CA
Join Date: 09/05/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 38

Rally Car:
awd '93 Honda del Sol



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
April 26, 2015 02:14AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
...simple tape measure stuff.

...

Here's an idea: can you post pretty photo and overlay lengths:

Inner pivot to balljoint and inner pivot to where the fork thing intersects the arm...

Like line A-B overall length, then line A-C to pivot....?

Kinda maybes like so? Is a rear and the bolt holes are the same diameter.





KK6EAR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2015 02:15AM by RallySol.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
RallySol
Eric Larsen
Junior Moderator
Location: San Mateo, CA
Join Date: 09/05/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 38

Rally Car:
awd '93 Honda del Sol



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
April 26, 2015 01:07PM
Or maybe like dis?

Cast EG arm


And a boxed '00 Si arm




KK6EAR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2015 01:08PM by RallySol.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Senior Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
April 26, 2015 01:22PM
Yeah, that's the idea...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
dreamsofjvl
Sancho Panza
Infallible Moderator
Join Date: 06/30/2016
Posts: 131


Re: More than you ever wanted to know about the 88-91 Honda Civic suspension
July 01, 2016 01:20PM
Hey Aaron, messaged you on facebook but you probably didnt notice the request.

I am looking into picking up the bilsteins you recommend for the EF civic I just picked up. Do you have valving suggestions? And what spring rates did you end up with?

Cody Crane said he did 300 front 250 rear in his CRX and he wanted to go to 350 front and 175 rear (running agx's). Interstingly enough, Teing specs 355 front and 195 rear springs for their gravel suspensions for EK civics, so he might have been onto something.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login