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Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe

Posted by Ckgtimk2 
DexterVW
David Baker
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 03:08PM
Yeah I think we could probably do that... these were bigger and bend to 5deg +/-.1 then heat treated...
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 03:59PM
So has anyone thought of any other rear disk setups we could use that already utilizes 4x100? Fords, Honda's, Nissan etc...
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 04:47PM
Quote
DexterVW
So has anyone thought of any other rear disk setups we could use that already utilizes 4x100? Fords, Honda's, Nissan etc...

Yeah some but then there's the damn 14" wheel thing seems most are saddled with..

You know some discs with a dia around 255-260mm and 4 on 100?
BMW maybe?



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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 04:51PM
You saying the brakes are too small or two big in most cases... I'm thinking like a 88+ Civic...


I know honda people drop on the disc from a G60 rado and either space out the stock caliper or put wilwoods or similar on..
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 04:54PM
They use bearing/hubs like these
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danster
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 04:59PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Yeah some but then there's the damn 14" wheel thing seems most are saddled with..

You know some discs with a dia around 255-260mm and 4 on 100?
BMW maybe?

VW Golf mk2 1.8 16v from 1990 use a 256mm vented front disc, but the lesser mk3 diesels and petrols used a solid 256m front disc. Both 4 x 100.
I'll check that disc fits the Polo rear hub tomorrow.



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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 05:03PM
oh boo to honda rear stubbs ... see below... whats next?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2013 05:06PM by DexterVW.
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Aaron Luptak
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 05:05PM
The 'stub axle's from the 88-00 civic/integras will probably be a PITA to reuse, regardless of disc size. In addition to the stub for the hub itself, it has a stub going out the back, through the trailing arm.


best pic I could find quickly...

However, the Fit uses a twist beam on the rear, and the hubs are the same AFAIK, so you might be able to use their stub axles.

but:
1) no OEM discs on the fit (something like http://www.scarebird.com/index.php?id=44 could be fabbed though)
2) still have the 'bearing race is built into the hub'/not-really-intended-to-be-replaceable hub/wheelbearing assys.



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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 05:07PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
DexterVW
So has anyone thought of any other rear disk setups we could use that already utilizes 4x100? Fords, Honda's, Nissan etc...

Yeah some but then there's the damn 14" wheel thing seems most are saddled with..

You know some discs with a dia around 255-260mm and 4 on 100?
BMW maybe?

You can fit 10.1" 256mm rotors fine under 14" wheels.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?846180-The-brakes-of-the-MK4-platform-OEM-and-Upgrades



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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 05:15PM
My dog needed out for a piss so just picked up a front VW 256mm vented disc from the shed.
It fits perfectly on the rear Polo hub, it centres correctly, it's 4 x 100, even the little brake disc retaining screw is in the right place.

And this also means the front 239mm vented or solid disc will fit.

And just for info these Polo setups turn up over here secondhand for about £50 quid whatever that is in dollars.



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2013 05:18PM by danster.
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 23, 2013 05:33PM
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 24, 2013 01:24AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
You know some discs with a dia around 255-260mm and 4 on 100?
BMW maybe?
Hombre, you should know who to ask.

02-03 Civic Si rear disquetes = 260x9 on a 4x100 bcd
94-01 Integra (all models exc. Type-R) used the same disc I believe.
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Andrew_Frick
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 24, 2013 08:18AM
Since John is all about switching bolt patterns. The ford focus rear disks are a good setup. Focus pattern is 4x108. But it ticks the rest of the boxes, not sure on 14" wheels as I have never had a reason to try.

- Good caliper carrier
- Replaceable bearing
- readily available in junk yards
- cheap
- very durable

I think Simon when something like 40 rallies and only had to replace them once. And that was because he did not install the dust cover for the bearing and it only made it 10 rallies or so. The second bearing went about 30 rallies.
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danster
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
January 29, 2013 06:56AM
Quote
hoche
Quote
Ckgtimk2
I've got the early style rubber mount. Round upright, not the hydro mount style. Someone filled it with urethane. The car has a "works" style mount on the block on the pass side, and also has the factory rear engine mount, again early style upright, filled w urethane. Fyi car has an ABA swap. The mounts seem pretty solid, I just figured I'd throw the factory trans mount in there for a little extra support on the tranny end since the top of the 5th gear housing doesn't seem to beefy. Has anyone come up with a way to reinforce the housing there? Or am I the only one breaking those bc I'm a noob who lifts just before launching off jumps??

I have never broken the top of the transmission the way you're describing, but I use the standard 3-pt Golf mounts, not frame-rail mounts. The front-style mount you're describing is the one I was going to recommend, right down to the filling-it-with-eurethane part.

From what you're describing - ABA with frame-rail mounts etc...do you have Duplessis's old car?

I found this pic of the early captive style front mount used on the mk2 golfs.



It certainly helps to keep the running gear located better than the later hydro types. It reduces movement both up and down and laterally.

If you broke the box casing where the mount attaches it could be because there was either not enough, or inversley too much support or compliance in the mounts manifesting in too much load at a given point resulting in a failure.
If the mount that broke off your box was a solid type and you landed heavily off a big jump the chassis rails may have moved with enough force to simply crack the box casing at the mount.
If using the running gears as a "stressed member" this is something to consider.

I have recently seen problems with the Ford 2.0 Duratec equipped vehicles. When they are involved in an accident unfortunately the engine mounts are not weak enough to be the sacrifcial part, this results in the mounts breaking the threaded mounting bosses off the alloy block. Pretty much rendering the blocks as scrap due to cost of repair and questionable strength for future use.
I had to strip the engines out of 4 cars to finally get a servicable block due to damage in various different areas caused by similar frontal impacts.



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe
March 05, 2013 02:35PM
Does anyone have the diameter dimensions for the mk2/mk3 stub axle? I'm wondering if a custom turned axle to fit the mk4 hub could be persuaded onto the mk2/3 stub axle. I picked up a set of mk4 hubs, axles, and disks today. I can make them fit with some machined adapter plates, but that might be a little pricey for people without a mill/cnc at their disposal.
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