Reinforcing VW control arms/subframe

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john vanlandingham
Here's the struts that began life as off the shelf, fixed sea Bilsteins for a Golf II

i want that...

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Less talk. More rally.

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Ckgtimk2

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john vanlandingham
Here's the struts that began life as off the shelf, fixed sea Bilsteins for a Golf II

i want that...

Would have been a lot easier and better and cost less if he had just called in the first place rather than finger out stuffs himself, getting it wrong, spending money onm a re-valve--got that wrong and having to live with dampening way in excess of what I do on a 2700 lb car, on his 1900 lb car, and still have less travel..

I think there's a telephone number right down there V
Call yack, plan in advance, more time is always better-er-er

I am the cheapest bastid in North American rally and I managed to save something but man it would have been easier to have a clean sheet design,,

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham


Would have been a lot easier and better and cost less if he had just called in the first place rather than finger out stuffs himself, getting it wrong, spending money onm a re-valve--got that wrong and having to live with dampening way in excess of what I do on a 2700 lb car, on his 1900 lb car, and still have less travel..

I think there's a telephone number right down there V
Call yack, plan in advance, more time is always better-er-er

I am the cheapest bastid in North American rally and I managed to save something but man it would have been easier to have a clean sheet design,,

unfortunately right now it is only a want... its hard to justify spending that much money on a want, when i have a suspension thats good enough for now. only having one real stage rally under my belt, and driving a car which prob isnt worth the cost of a pimp new suspension. im hoping to get more comfortable in the car as is, see if i can make it through a few events without tossing it into the trees and then ill start thinking about upgrades.

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Less talk. More rally.

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hoche
Not to derail this fine thread, but Robert, maybe you should just keep it simple for now and come out and play with the car as-is. I've seen you at a bunch of events, and you seem like a sensible sort. Lots of people get by with just the stock rear end, and it's really only if you're pushing the car (or are a particularly wild driver) that these sorts of upgrades are needed.

Not trying to be a negative nabob here - I'm all for continued investigations on this. It's just that I see soooo many people getting wrapped up in modding cars and never actually getting out on stage that it gets kind of depressing.

I definitely need to get on stage. The car has been close for a while, but school and finances (due to school) keep getting in the way (as well as a recently exploderated transmission). Right now I'm finishing up my masters degree and I'm also teaching a few classes, so time and money are pretty tight right now. I will reaslistically be hitting the stages this fall in my own car. Until then, I'm finding some spare time to investigate a few weak spots of the mk2. My garage is packed with my turbo volvo swap and I don't want to dive into the VW until the ovlov is up and running, I can't have too many dead cars in my drive way

Also, if anyone is interested. I have a bunch of metric ferry bolts (12-point 8mm head grade 12.9) that will work for the inner CVs on VWs. This will get rid of the crappy 'triple square' or allen bolts that can pack full of mud.
Your price would be $0.80 ea plus shipping to wherever. Let me know if your interested. I have about 60 spares right now.
Similar to:

Under Head length?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Robert Culbertson
Also, if anyone is interested. I have a bunch of metric ferry bolts (12-point 8mm head grade 12.9) that will work for the inner CVs on VWs. This will get rid of the crappy 'triple square' or allen bolts that can pack full of mud.

Feckin bolt off a ship for sure!!

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john vanlandingham
Under Head length?

About a yard by the looks of it on my PC screen. I nearly fell off my chair scrolling along to read his bloody post.

Go and weigh that bolt Mr Culbertson as it could be a performance hindernance (x6) due to the size of the head on it compared to the bi-hex internal multispline oem ones. All that extra mass will need rotated and as you have found out VW 020s ain't that strong. Those shiny bolts may be the tipping point and your new box will shit itself even thinking about turning those bling gold bolts.
Bling may just save rallying though......

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

I actually replaced the half shafts with the bolts. I plan on flexing the bolts for travel/steering. People always want stifer steering, they're always running power racks with no pumps and all. It's hip yo!

That picture was just randomely grabbed off of google, I couldn't find the actual website. Here it is!

Jonh, the under head length is 45mm. The same as stock VW.

Bringing it back!
I got to playing with some computer stuff and some VW parts and came up with these. They are meant to fit a mk4 rear stub axle onto a mk2/3 rear beam. This will allow a disk over hub setup that will be way better than the disk/hub combo. The center line of the rear axle gets shifted back about 10mm so at least one hole lines up.
Currently I designed them to be CNC machined out of 1in aluminum. They could easily be water jet cut out of steel. I get free use of CNC machines, so that's why I chose this route.
The plan is to use the early mk2 solid front rotor on the rear and drill the hub for 4/100. This will result in a disk that's about 10mm larger in diameter, and $10 on RockAuto.
Hit me with some feedback, I'm open to suggestions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2013 02:36AM by Robert Culbertson.

That MK4 spindle adapter for the rear looks great, maybe take it a step further and place a "better" caliper on the leading end of the wheel. i have owned 8+ VWs, MK2,3,4. all of them but 1 had some sort or rear caliper issue ( sticking, leaking, broken bleeders, sliders, carriers ). if most of the mk2/3 are utilizing a hydro hand brake in favor of the shoelace cables, why not change to a light, cheap alloy caliper with a decent pad selection?
going back to, and i have not read the entire thread again lately, i would pull the subframe and plate/weld the shit out of it. leave the mk2 arms and tierods (longer bends easier). From the mk3 run the spindles and axles. if i am not mistaken a Girling G60 (audi b5 dual piston caliper) should fit the MK3 spindle within a 15" wheel.
it would be far easier to replace the control arms rather then the subframe in a service.

That's funny on the caliper issue, all of mine have been great. I kill fuel pumps for some reason (some people say it's because I'm always on "E"...)
I agree that a better caliper would be nice, but those cost money. The stock VW can be found anywhere and rebuild cheaply. I grease the pins everytime I change pads on the pavement pounder. I have never had an issue with it sticking. Also, looking at your location, I bet they salt the roads a lot over there. We just get gravel. Calipers last a lot longer over here!
I buy cheap rear pads for the pavement car, rear brakes have never been an issue on that car. I will smoke the rears way before the fronts start to slide. I have a rear proportioning valve that I run to limit the rears to practically nothing.
I switched up the mount a bit to clear the mk2 solid front rotor. I'm heading home later today to see if I can stretch a rear caliper over the 2mm wider disk.
Already runing mk3 (not vr6 yet) uprights/brakes/calipers. I'm sticking with 14in wheels until I hit the jackpot.

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Robert Culbertson
That's funny on the caliper issue, all of mine have been great. I kill fuel pumps for some reason (some people say it's because I'm always on "E"...)
I agree that a better caliper would be nice, but those cost money. The stock VW can be found anywhere and rebuild cheaply. I grease the pins everytime I change pads on the pavement pounder. I have never had an issue with it sticking. Also, looking at your location, I bet they salt the roads a lot over there. We just get gravel. Calipers last a lot longer over here!
I buy cheap rear pads for the pavement car, rear brakes have never been an issue on that car. I will smoke the rears way before the fronts start to slide. I have a rear proportioning valve that I run to limit the rears to practically nothing.
I switched up the mount a bit to clear the mk2 solid front rotor. I'm heading home later today to see if I can stretch a rear caliper over the 2mm wider disk.
Already runing mk3 (not vr6 yet) uprights/brakes/calipers. I'm sticking with 14in wheels until I hit the jackpot.

you win the bet.
The whole 1/4 out the US is buried under tons per mile of salt..

It's a form of income re-distribution, a giant expensive un-needed scam.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John is right, there has to be a contingency plan for municipalities per ton of slat dumped. its sad to say the average 10 year old cars out here are rotten. we dump all kinds of shit on the road so gramma has a chance to meet up for cribbage.

Measurements and the hub machining is done. Now I need to find me some thick aluminum! Onwards!
John, you will like that the mk4 hubs are already drilled for your favorite 14mm studs. I just filled and drilled one so I could run my little bitty 12mm studs that will break at the first sign of powa! Good thing I don't have any!

The front solid disk is 2mm wider than the rear. So I could either shave the backside of the pad down or I would machine the caliper. I chose the caliper. Now I can use unmodified brake pads and stock rotors! Woohoo!
Made a few revisions to the design. The older iteration moved the axle 10mm rearwards. That doesn't leave much room for things like mud flaps and rocks and bent beams and such. So I moved the axle 8mm forward and 8mm upwards. It now means I can use a common size of barstock for material, resulting in less cost and waste. Also, it now has caliper spacers built in to account for the different disk offset. It also allows me to use a 4.00x1.25 thick piece of aluminum.
Machining starts tomorrow, I think!

Great, can't wait to see them.

Regarding the calipers, the MK4 rear calipers are great and have a good parking brake mechanism too. Same pads, same mounting points, just aluminum rather than iron and an improved parking brake design using a ramp rather than cam lever thingy. Also, there were some 10.1 or even 11" rear brake kits available for the MK4's form the OEM (either 20th anniversary edition GTI or 337 edition I think)

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