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Volvo 240 Rally build

Posted by Eric Ewert 
MattP
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 06:54PM
Quote
mekilljoydammit
I always love learning history of the "why" of things. I assume the Ascona and Manta 400 were about as rare as hen's teeth?

No we had a lot of them in the UK, especially in the mid 80's, the Andrews Heat for Hire Manta, as well as my boss's Stars and Stripes 400 were a couple of them.



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 09:38PM
Quote
mekilljoydammit
I always love learning history of the "why" of things. I assume the Ascona and Manta 400 were about as rare as hen's teeth?

Relative and relative...weiss du junge under der regel für Grupp4 400 exemplar gemakt müssen...

History sorry...You know that under the reglement for Group 4 400 cars must be made.
And they were really rally cars so they ended up where there was rally interest.. McRae---the one that didn't kill a bunch of innocent people showing off---and Russel Brookes were the ones I first saw back in maybe I dunno '84 driving beautifully in their Manta 400s and in some slightly older tapes we saw Vatanen in the Ascona 400s.. But by 89 I was up at a BTRDA series event in Yorkshire (North York Moors OS map) and there I saw at least 3. Simple, neat and clean.. and being 2.4 liter they sound way diifferent from the 1600 BDA and 2.0 BDG Escorts

The motor in the Ascona and Manta 400s allegedly were derived from the Brazilian diesel 2.1 block..which was about the same deck height as the normal CIH block--about 208mm.
The bore was same to the road car CIH 2,0's 95mm but the stroke was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer..Road car 2,0 was 69,8mm, these buggers were 85mm

And the big change was in rod and piston dimensions---road cars had scrawny short 128.5mm rods and ancient 1950s design pistons that were 45mm compression height and weighed a ton, while these had pistons with very modern 31,5mm comp hgt and 134mm rod center to center...

The road car CIH had a pretty good rod/stroke ratio of about 1.84 while the DOHC 400 engine had r/s ratio of 1.57....not the best for power, lots of rod angulation...

And interesting side note is about 29 years ago I built for the old crusty MkI Dave Clark and engine and looking at those ugly heavy slugs with the 45mm comp height and having had warnings from guys back in Sweden to be wary of the Opel rods failing unless you used the (fawkin insane expensive) Opel P/n blah blah blah at a million a rod, I chose to base the build around Saab 99/900 rods which has the same 52mm rod journal diameter (along with Ford Pinto, Ford Lima, Ford YB Cosworth). I wanted shorter pistons for less reciprocating weight so I used the Saab rods which were 134mm c-c...whddya know...+5.5mm in rods and down from 45mm to 39,5mm comp hgt....5,5mm...Opel pins were 23, the forged things (VW) were 22mm so rebushed the rods and finished to 22...decked the block and presto.. Nice r/s ratio or 1.92---Same as the mighty Ford V4 in my Saab.

And to connect this to Eric's build thread, the 400 Opel DOHC pistons with that nice modeern 31.5mm comp height? For more than 13 years now I've been doing longer rods for the Volvos and the pistons come out...wait for it.......












31,7mm and we save over 450 grams piston weight..Light reciprocating parts are nice..



John Vanlandingham
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Eric Ewert
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 19, 2016 12:38AM
In regards to that last detail John... 450+ gram savings is compared to a b23 piston correct? I thought the b230 had stuff that was a little less chunky.
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Eric Ewert
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 23, 2016 12:29AM
Well its a small step but one I have been fighting with way too long... took a different approach to test fitting the doors and had success. (insert comment on Einstein's theory of insanity) Everything is roughed in but gaps are within reason and opening/ closing both doors is now possible. In this photo the b pillar/ rocker is clamped in for test fitting; I can now take the final cuts and being to weld things together.
Overall a big relief.

Also john I found the answer to my question in the previous post via a bit of searching... the answer was from one of your posts no less. 275 grams weight savings over the standard b230 pistons/ rods.
Out of curiousity is this per bore or for all 4 rods/ pistons?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2016 12:36AM by Eric Ewert.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 23, 2016 03:08AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
In regards to that last detail John... 450+ gram savings is compared to a b23 piston correct? I thought the b230 had stuff that was a little less chunky.

B23FT---rod approx 880g.....save 140g
B23FT piston approx 880g with pin ..........down to approx 340g +109g pin

B230 early rod...no idea, I don't think about them since they're so sketchy
B230 late rod @ 152mm c-c vs mine at 160---save about 4g
B230 Piston bare to mine at approx 340 (same piston as above)( I do the same pin size on both) appro 340g saving, roughly 3/4 pound



John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 23, 2016 03:10AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
In regards to that last detail John... 450+ gram savings is compared to a b23 piston correct? I thought the b230 had stuff that was a little less chunky.

B23FT---rod approx 880g.....save 140g
B23FT piston approx 880g with pin ..........down to approx 340g +109g pin

B230 early rod...no idea, I don't think about them since they're so sketchy
B230 late rod @ 152mm c-c vs mine at 160---save about 4g
B230 Piston bare to mine at approx 340 (same piston as above)( I do the same pin size on both) approx 340g saving, roughly 3/4 pound per hole



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2016 03:11AM by john vanlandingham.
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Eric Ewert
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 03, 2017 03:17PM
Well, amazing, i'm actually doing something. Or at least doing a decent job of pretending to. After spending way too much time prepping panels/ seams i've now got weld through primer on the panels, plug weld holes drilled... 109 of them to be exact, and a cup of tea on the go. Pretty much ready to refit this thing. With any luck it will be in place by the end of the day. Knock on wood. eye rolling smiley
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NoCoast
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 03, 2017 03:32PM
I'm just going to make another cup of PG Tips.

What's with the sumo wrestler?



Grant Hughes
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 04, 2017 11:30AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Well, amazing, i'm actually doing something. Or at least doing a decent job of pretending to. After spending way too much time prepping panels/ seams i've now got weld through primer on the panels, plug weld holes drilled... 109 of them to be exact, and a cup of tea on the go. Pretty much ready to refit this thing. With any luck it will be in place by the end of the day. Knock on wood. eye rolling smiley

The answer to instant progress! But didya know:


Quote

Infinite Improbability Drive

The infinite improbability drive is a wonderful new method of crossing interstellar distances in a mere nothingth of a second, without all that tedious mucking about in hyperspace. It was discovered by lucky chance, and then developed into a governable form of propulsion by the Galactic Government's research centre on Damogran. This concept was developed by Douglas Adams in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.


Discovery
The principle of generating small amounts of finite improbability by simply hooking the logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter suspended in a strong Brownian Motion producer (say a nice hot cup of tea) were of course well understood — and such generators were often used to break the ice at parties by making all the molecules in the hostess's undergarments leap simultaneously one foot to the left, in accordance with the theory of indeterminacy.

Many respectable physicists said that they weren't going to stand for this, partly because it was a debasement of science, but mostly because they didn't get invited to those sorts of parties.

Another thing they couldn't stand was the perpetual failure they encountered while trying to construct a machine which could generate the infinite improbability field needed to flip a spaceship across the mind-paralyzing distances between the farthest stars, and at the end of the day they grumpily announced that such a machine was virtually impossible.



John Vanlandingham
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Eric Ewert
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 05, 2017 12:22AM
So the whole "it'll be good to go by the end of the day" thing... like most of my ideas this one did not go as planned. Its tacked in place but im back to dealing with door fit issues. The rear one fits fairly well; door seals are sitting correctly, decent gaps, etc. However the front one is errant. I can get it to close but it binds. Anyone got anything to offer? Right about now i'm wishing I went for the 2 door conversion!

Grant: You remember subaru using sumo wrestlers for promotion? That poster is a dealer poster my dad brought home for a laugh. Also tetley tea is the brand of choice round here, maybe id be more productive if it were pg tips!

John: As a result of having still not watching that damn movie I can't say too much (are you really that surprised?) drinking smiley Though I may have to find use for the word bambleweeny.
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NoCoast
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 05, 2017 10:12AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Grant: You remember subaru using sumo wrestlers for promotion? That poster is a dealer poster my dad brought home for a laugh. Also tetley tea is the brand of choice round here, maybe id be more productive if it were pg tips!

I was guessing it was something like that but couldn't see the whole thing. Pretty funny, we have kitty posters and Taylor Swift calendars.
I think I pay around 2.5 cents per tea bag on Amazon which is why I like PG Tips. smiling smiley



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 05, 2017 11:07AM
Quote
NoCoast
Quote
Eric Ewert
Grant: You remember subaru using sumo wrestlers for promotion? That poster is a dealer poster my dad brought home for a laugh. Also tetley tea is the brand of choice round here, maybe id be more productive if it were pg tips!

I was guessing it was something like that but couldn't see the whole thing. Pretty funny, we have kitty posters and Taylor Swift calendars.
I think I pay around 2.5 cents per tea bag on Amazon which is why I like PG Tips. smiling smiley

I may need to switch over to tea for the shop. That's a huge savings over coffee.
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Paul Buck
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 05, 2017 03:03PM
Tea?
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NoCoast
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 05, 2017 03:16PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
I may need to switch over to tea for the shop. That's a huge savings over coffee.

https://www.amazon.com/PG-Tips-Black-Pyramid-240-Count/dp/B001EQ5JLE
4.5 cents, I stand corrected. Add in a little bit of sugar and splash of milk and it ends up around 10-15 cents per cup.

Move the pillar back a touch so the back door binds a bit and the front door closes easily?



Grant Hughes
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 05, 2017 04:24PM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Also tetley tea is the brand of choice round here, maybe id be more productive if it were pg tips!

PG tips is apparently available on amazon.ca . Tetley man myself, never understood the desire to drink coffee, if its winter and I'm in the shop, there will be a cup of tea out there with me smiling smiley
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