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Volvo 240 Rally build

Posted by Eric Ewert 
Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 25, 2016 06:54PM
Thanks gentleman!

Keith I was thinking along those lines as well. Trouble is I have no idea what to get for pads in the after market world. Suggestions? I would Ideally like to avoid an all out race pad in the interests of keeping things street-able. Unless these sort of pads are actually ok for street use.
Not too mention I will never drive the car hard enough to need better brakes. Anyway Im all ears!
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Mad Matt F
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 25, 2016 06:55PM
Fark you make me miss my 240 in snow..

Edit "underpowered stock a$$ 240"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2016 06:56PM by Mad Matt F.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 25, 2016 07:05PM
Good. Go get another one! smileys with beer

Mine has a whopping stock 110ish hp on a good day, still fun!

John: Yes yes and yes. Replumbed, oem limiter removed and when I redid the calipers they went back to the stock rear hinged arrangement instead of the forward facing thing I had before. Thanks for mentioning the benefits of that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2016 07:10PM by Eric Ewert.
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alkun
Albert Kun
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 25, 2016 09:31PM
wait a minute, the Taliban-Tested-Totally-Tough-Toyota axle shat the bed? from stock NA volvo power? what gives?!
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Keith Morison
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 25, 2016 11:35PM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Keith I was thinking along those lines as well. Trouble is I have no idea what to get for pads in the after market world. Suggestions? I would Ideally like to avoid an all out race pad in the interests of keeping things street-able.
i have no idea what's out there for the calipers you're running, but I'd look for some of the street performance pads out there... the sort of pads autocrossers use. There are a few 'grades' of pads out there, so using a milder pad in the front and something more aggressive in the back might do what you need it to. (Hawk SP and SP+ come to mind)
The 'street performance pads come up to operating temp really quickly and are meant for road use, but the more aggressive pads will wear through rotors faster and will be noisy. I had the SP+ on my WRX recce car until my wife complained about the squealing brakes enough times. (It was the neighbours talking about them that was the final straw for her.)

Now, I don't pretend to be an expert in these things, but I do thing sorting out the brake system before the pads is the 'right' fix, and staggering pad types would be a 'patch' approach. By all means give more weight to anyone with more knowledge and experience with your application!
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 25, 2016 11:43PM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Thanks gentleman!

Keith I was thinking along those lines as well. Trouble is I have no idea what to get for pads in the after market world. Suggestions? I would Ideally like to avoid an all out race pad in the interests of keeping things street-able. Unless these sort of pads are actually ok for street use.
Not too mention I will never drive the car hard enough to need better brakes. Anyway Im all ears!
OK you haven't called so you force me to slave away over a hot keyboard. My knees are grey, my eyes are bent, I am an old man, and you make me hunt and peck...

One reason I heart the 240 Bolbo calipers is the pistons are sight sized AND the pad is a good size..
It just happens to be same pad ---I think the universal number is DB-3---that was used on FRONT of Saab 99---> and that German thing with the engine in back that everybody gets stiffies over---except me who knows they were routinely spanked on gravel and snow by the superior Saab 96 with the might V4. Portch or something..

So there is available a HUGE variety of pads:
For 911 Portch:
RAYBESTOS RPD96A Organic

Front; Base Model Engine VIN 2 (Only 1 Remaining)

Part Image
$4.42
SATISFIED BRAKES PR96C
Front Ceramic Pads; PRO SERIES; Base Model Engine Code GA95 [Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty]

Part Image
$14.23
BOSCH BP31 QuietCast

[Flag indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the US Market. It does not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in multiple factories worldwide.] Front (Only 8 Remaining)

Part Image
$15.51
BENDIX D31 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Ceramic Quiet

Front


$16.05
FERODO FDB3M Damn memory works after 25 years!!!{Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} PREMIER; Thickness [mm]: 15; Excl. wear warning contact; Brake System: ATE; WVA Number: 20009; Number of pads: 4; Length [mm]: 56; Height [mm]: 53
Front Axle



Part Image
$19.29
Front

Part Image
$19.31
RAYBESTOS PGD96A Professional Grade; Organic

Front; OE PAD MATERIAL IS ORGANIC

Part Image CENTRIC 10500960 Posi-Quiet Ceramic w/Shims-Preferred

$21.89
Economy
EIS DE31A Organic
Front Organic Pads; Base Model Engine Code GA95 [Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty] (Only 1 Remaining)

Part Image
$4.64
AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES 2709601

(Only 1 Remaining)

Part Image
$4.98
KEMPARTS MD96

[Flag indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the US Market. It does not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in multiple factories worldwide. Front Semi Metallic Pads; PERFECT





$4.98
CENTRIC 10200960 C-Tek; Metallic
One of our most popular parts
Front

Part Image
$6.65


Part Image
$7.92
BOSCH BE31 Blue Front


And that's just Rockauto..Hell for $5.00 you better stock up before I swoop them all.

For Saab 99 Front
FERODO FDB3M PREMIER; Thickness [mm]: 15; Excl. wear warning contact; Brake System: ATE; WVA Number: 20009; Number of pads: 4; Length [mm]: 56; Height [mm]: 53
Front Axle


For Volvo rear:


BOSCH BP31 QuietCast

Rear (Only 8 Remaining)

Part Image
$15.51
BECK/ARNLEY 0851409 {#2701662, D103A, D31} True Friction

Rear; Assembly; OE Type Pad Material

Part Image
$15.64
BENDIX D31 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Ceramic Quiet

Rear

Part Image
Choose:
$15.77
POWER STOP 16031 Evolution Ceramic

Rear (Only 4 Remaining)

Part Image
$18.00
BECK/ARNLEY 0870639 Semi-Metallic

Front (Only 2 Remaining)

Part Image
$18.12
CENTRIC 10500430 Posi-Quiet Ceramic w/Shims
One of our most popular parts
Front

Part Image
$18.22
MONROE DX31 Total Solution Semi-Metallic Brake Pads

Rear; OE Recommended

Part Image
$18.38

So we see same pad..

That means you can get a variety of pads.

Now some race pads require them to be up at some temp to work at all.
Some do not.
Short track circle track guys need stuff to work RIGHT NOW and withstand the harshest use known.
(AP said that they looking at gravel rally as the harshest use of brakes they knew because (in a world where people don't fuck around drive max-mpg geard shitboxes) the relative high speeds reached on staights, even very short straights---thanks to very short gearing ---and relative low corner speeds and low air flow.....
That is until the 90s when they made a push to get into circle track..They now say NASCAR Short Tracks are the baddest conditions.. Pavement pussies roadracing go faster but due to the snivelling nature of the participants and fans, the tracks are simplistic and wide and sweeping so even those effete girly-men manage to corner at relatively high speeds...just as trained monkees or bears could do..


So maybe theres some pads with more "initial bite"..Problem is they cost MOAR MONIES.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
January 26, 2016 01:40AM
Well Al simply put I think I screwed up. It sucks but its not the end of the world. As it sits the pinion has zero preload so 99% sure the problem lies there. Unless one of the spacers on the solid pinion spacer cracked the blame is to me. No matter I will get it back together and the supra lsd should be fine so can have some proper grip again soon!

Thanks for the suggestions Keith and John. I'm going to give what I just put in the car a bit more time just incase they are slow bedding in. After that I will try a few new pads and see what I can come up with. I will report back!

You know all my moaning about brakes could just be me not driving it properly!!!
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 03, 2016 10:24PM
So very simple question. Poly bushings on front suspension or keep soft oem ones?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 04, 2016 07:56AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
So very simple question. Poly bushings on front suspension or keep soft oem ones?

Eric gotta be careful wif Polyurethane in cold weather..some is cheesoid and just shatters...big problem..
Rubber tears on the udder hand.

I say use only the finest virgin "first pressing" poly and have a complete set of rubberoid--new --in reserve.



John Vanlandingham
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 04, 2016 10:45AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
So very simple question. Poly bushings on front suspension or keep soft oem ones?

Super Pro bushings have been working great for us in the rally car. I've also had them on my DD for a few years with no problems.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 05, 2016 12:37AM
Hmmm torn rubber sounds better than exploded poly. But if you get quality ones you say its not a problem...

You say to have complete set of rubber in reverse. I assume you mean in the box of spares? If thats the case why not another set of poly spares if poly is wunderbar?

What did group A sierra's use? Or other high level rally cars that matter? Or does all that sorta stuff get the heim joint treatment?

Robert whats the life span on the super pro bushings on your rally car?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 05, 2016 12:49AM
Quote
Eric Ewert

What did group A sierra's use? Or other high level rally cars that matter? Or does all that sorta stuff get the heim joint treatment?

Rod ends everywhere...



John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 05, 2016 12:52AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Hmmm torn rubber sounds better than exploded poly. But if you get quality ones you say its not a problem...

You say to have complete set of rubber in reverse. I assume you mean in the box of spares? If thats the case why not another set of poly spares if poly is wunderbar?

What did group A sierra's use? Or other high level rally cars that matter? Or does all that sorta stuff get the heim joint treatment?

Robert whats the life span on the super pro bushings on your rally car?

The forward control arm bushing is pretty much solid rubber and probably could be left as is. It's also a pain to press out.
The rear control arm bushing is the most compliant, I'd definitely replace that one with poly. It's also super easy to do.

The poly bushings have at least 8 rallies on them. (Not my car, I just help work on it and co-drive once in a while)
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 28, 2016 11:33PM
Ok i'm having some bosch 2.4 headaches.... hopefully someone here can confirm a few things and offer some suggestions.

So when I initially got the car back on the road the MAF died in short order... fine, replaced and all was well.

Fast forward 8ish months and I have in my hand another dead maf. Leading up to it dying it had been studdering/ misfiring for about a month. This misfire was erratic but usually under part throttle cruising. However it got worse at the end and would kill power under full throttle whenever it so pleased. Oh as an added bonus it has a habbit of idling at 1500rpm when warmed up. Not sure if its related though.

So what keeps killing the maf? The dead one still passes the heated wire check.

I have done the following to try and prevent this happening again.

Cleaned all contacts . Checked resistance of every wire going to the maf. A few before were reading .5 ohm to the ecu. Everything now reads zero ohm.

checked resistance from orange wire from the fuel pump/main relay again, zero.

Checked burn off function: failed so I replaced fuel pump/ main relay. Now has burn off reading.



Anything else??? This is driving me insane... oh and there is more.


I bought a new maf of course. After looking it over noticed a few differences from it compared to the old despite it being advertised at equal replacement. I included a couple photos of the old (broken) and new maf to show the differences. First pic is the new, second is the old. Note the thin wire that forms a oddly shaped square on the old. It is not on the new one but there is an extra resistor on the new one.

At first figured fine; they updated the new mafs design. But then I did a heated wire check on the new one and it was way off the 2.5-4.0 ohms it should be (according to haynes). So here I sit not wanting to try it out for fear that it will bugger something up. The brand of the new maf is partlex.


Uhhhh... time for some dcoe 48 webers eye rolling smiley
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
February 29, 2016 12:48AM
You might be able to tap into the resources over at TurboBricks. Definitely more knowledgable Volvo pervs over there. But I'll help you as much as I can.

I've always used old OEM Volvo MAFs as replacements, as the rebuilt ones are pretty... Meh for reliability. I have a few bad ones sitting in a box that have worked and failed.

So the problem is probably not the MAF. They rarely go bad unless they're coated in oil or the wire gets broken.

Did you convert the car to LH2.4 from 2.2 or k-jet?

I've had similar issues with my turbo lh2.4 swap-a-palooza Volvo. Once it was the power stage crapping out, the other time it was the hose on the in-tank fuel pump leaking and bypassing the in-tank pump. Both had very similar symptoms: runs great for a bit (~1hr), and then it starts to stumble really bad and die after a minute of erratic running. Let the car sit for an hour and there would be no problem for a few more hours of driving.

All this to say, it could be something completely unrelated to the MAF that's causing your car to run like poo. Oh the joys of 30 year old engine management computers, crappy wiring, old components, and bad luck.
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