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Volvo 240 Rally build

Posted by Eric Ewert 
alkun
Albert Kun
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Location: SF Ca.
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Rally Car:
volvo 242


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
September 09, 2016 07:18PM
definitely make sure the doors fit before you start welding. Porta-power and/ or screw jacks to push things around untill it fits. Measure as many dimensions and match to the good side. Also is the car on jack stands? sometimes it will sag while cut apart.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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Rally Car:
volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
September 09, 2016 07:33PM
Car is not on jack stands. I look measurements of the door openings off the parts car before cutting it and they match up with what I got now.

Im guessing that sanding the bolt holes in the body for the front door to allow it to slide forward a bit more is a big no-no? I find it hard to believe that there would be that much difference between one car to the next... especially being that they are the same model year.

Thanks for the input Al (and everyone for that matter). Clearly I should have gotten a 2 door, wouldn't of had this problem right now! eye rolling smiley
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mekilljoydammit
Daniel DeRosia
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 17, 2016 05:04PM
Definite tirekicking sorta question but half mulling over a project to practice metalwork and building for a street thing... when talk of doing the Volvos like overgrown Escorts comes up, what do the spring rates end up at? Sorta "Escort plus a bit" or something? I can't imagine a 240 is going to be quite as light as a Mk1 or Mk2 Escort.
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MattP
Matt Pullen
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2002 Ford StRanger


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 17, 2016 05:19PM
Volvo 240 base 2800#
Mk1 1690#
Mk2 1940#

so about 50% more Escort.



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 17, 2016 09:31PM
Quote
mekilljoydammit
Definite tirekicking sorta question but half mulling over a project to practice metalwork and building for a street thing... when talk of doing the Volvos like overgrown Escorts comes up, what do the spring rates end up at? Sorta "Escort plus a bit" or something? I can't imagine a 240 is going to be quite as light as a Mk1 or Mk2 Escort.

Maybe its best to see what actual rally cars weigh, so here's some official weights at a old Swedish Championship event: (kinda huge so the print is clear)


Just for comparison here's the other classes:





So we see a range of weights..
Lightest Escort is at 1000kg or 2200lbs, heaviest at 1065kg or 2343lbs

The then dominant car was the Ascona B--midway between Escort size (94.5" wheelbase) and 240 Volvo at 104" wheelbase...it was 99.1" wheelbase

So lightest Ascona was 980kg--and that has to be an Ascona A chassi---95.4" wheelbase...heaviest was 1100kg or 2420lbs... average about 1055kg aka 2321lbs

Lightest 240 was 1100kg or 242lbs and the heaviest was at 1255kg or 2761lbs

Average Escort.....1032kg or 2271.5 lbs
Average Volvo.......1170kg or 2575lbs

About 13.3% heavier



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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Rally Car:
volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 12:11AM
Daniel- As far as spring rates go mine has 250lb front 175lb rear. I do believe John normally supplies 275 front . Weight of my car would be at the higher end of those weight figures (2750lb with 3/4 tank fuel). Can't remember the exact weight distribution but its not far off from 50/50. I suspect with the heavier front springs it would be bang on.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 02:24AM
Quote
mekilljoydammit
Definite tirekicking sorta question but half mulling over a project to practice metalwork and building for a street thing... when talk of doing the Volvos like overgrown Escorts comes up, what do the spring rates end up at? Sorta "Escort plus a bit" or something? I can't imagine a 240 is going to be quite as light as a Mk1 or Mk2 Escort.
We're rocking 225lb/in up front with a 8.8in stroke strut and 115 lb/in or 150lb/in in the stock location out back.
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mekilljoydammit
Daniel DeRosia
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 08:14AM
Thanks gents, appreciate it. The weight of the Escorts and Volvos are closer in that trim than I'd have expected, but maybe that's due to typical Yank "can't get it here - it must be awesome!" thinking.

*edit* And speaking of Yank-o-centric points of view, didn't realize the capability of the Opels. Interesting too that a lot of the top flight rally stuff back then were using wishbones instead of struts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2016 10:09AM by mekilljoydammit.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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Rally Car:
volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 11:58AM
John, I just noticed that you got a list of weights for the volvo original stuff... whats the lightest one of those weighing in at?

In case your curious my car has nothing more than standard rally prep done for weight savings... no fiberglass panels, stock motor, stock cast iron brakes and an axle that adds around 20-30lbs. cage is all 1.75inch tubing. Even with the couple of extra tubes north american cages demand I see no reason why you couldnt get a 240 down well under 1200kg. Possibly touch the 1100kg mark but at that point some fiberglass panels would likely be involved.
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MattP
Matt Pullen
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 12:29PM
What sort of weight is yours Eric?



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 01:25PM
The Fickle Bitch 242 turbo rally car is 2750lbs with all of the supports cut out of the doors/hood/trunk, and plexiglass windows in everything but the windshield.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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Rally Car:
volvo 240


Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 01:38PM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Daniel- As far as spring rates go mine has 250lb front 175lb rear. I do believe John normally supplies 275 front . Weight of my car would be at the higher end of those weight figures (2750lb with 3/4 tank fuel). Can't remember the exact weight distribution but its not far off from 50/50. I suspect with the heavier front springs it would be bang on.

And as I said above lots of weight to come out. I do recall weighing it without a spare tire in it though. I think with the spare it was 2780-2790ish.

After seeing first hand what the door supports do in a side impact I wouldn't be super inclined to toss them. I really doubt they weight that much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2016 01:46PM by Eric Ewert.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 03:42PM
Quote
mekilljoydammit
Thanks gents, appreciate it. The weight of the Escorts and Volvos are closer in that trim than I'd have expected, but maybe that's due to typical Yank "can't get it here - it must be awesome!" thinking.

*edit* And speaking of Yank-o-centric points of view, didn't realize the capability of the Opels. Interesting too that a lot of the top flight rally stuff back then were using wishbones instead of struts.

Opel Ascona B chassi dominance from mid 70s to the early 90s was based on a number of factors, and some of them external to the cars qualities..
Among these was a) Volvo was all PC and safety fixated so rally was against the corporate posture.
b) Ford cars were imported from Germany (Ford trucks came via another distributor who brought over English Fords like the first Transit I had had a 2,0 English V4, last one was a 2,4 York diesel)
Ford Germany did nothing with rally cause Germans like stuff they can obsessively practice and perfect so they're road race fan-bois, so Ford Sweden did nothing for rally (Only a parts manager at the dealership in Linköping brought over all the way bad stuff, but a dealer isn't like an importer, so...
The field was left wide open to Opel to dominate and that coupled with Opel making a run of Asconas stock with 2 x 45 Solexs ment the car was Group2 legal easier than making an Escort or Fiat (which also had Group 2 ringers with 2 x 44 downdraft Webers)....

By the early 1990s the all cast iron 2,0 8v Opels were making about an honest 210hp but the cost to do that was about 3 times the cost you could make a 2,3 8v Volvo motor make 230hp
Things like 1500 SEK for a set of rings (made by Götze in Germany) for an Opel versus 300 SEK for a set of rings (made by Götze in Germany) didn't help...

At that point, under then then current rules Opel had hit a dead end with the head, they couldn't just drop in some Saab rods and cheaper VW forged pistons like I did here, they had to use stock (horrible short) 128.5mm c-c Opel rods or use the 1988 onward soooooooper SOOOOPER Bitchin 2.0 Xe16v Kadett E motor and Volvo was just beginning serious development.

Additionally Ascona B 2 door shells were getting scarce between rust and the wholesale genocide committed by rally drivers so 240s started to dominate (until they got rarer and then 740s and 940s took over and I think were allowed a 2.5 motor for some reason).

And then came the "2 Valve Evo" head...now 265hp was the new short black dress.

The old Ascona A and Manta A chassis weren't bad, and they were certainly a hellovalot better than the common 510, Corolla, RX2/RX3/RX7 things here with vague sloppy recirculating ball steering with 16 to 18 turns lock to lock of horrible sloppy vague "steering"..So back in early to late 80s I could keep 4-5 Opel guys happy with 2,2 rack guys for $115, final drives for cheap, even close ratio gearsets for around $300 and build motors that just kept on going for years.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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dreamsofjvl
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Join Date: 06/30/2016
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 03:56PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
mekilljoydammit
Thanks gents, appreciate it. The weight of the Escorts and Volvos are closer in that trim than I'd have expected, but maybe that's due to typical Yank "can't get it here - it must be awesome!" thinking.

*edit* And speaking of Yank-o-centric points of view, didn't realize the capability of the Opels. Interesting too that a lot of the top flight rally stuff back then were using wishbones instead of struts.

Opel Ascona B chassi dominance from mid 70s to the early 90s was based on a number of factors, and some of them external to the cars qualities..
Among these was a) Volvo was all PC and safety fixated so rally was against the corporate posture.
b) Ford cars were imported from Germany (Ford trucks came via another distributor who brought over English Fords like the first Transit I had had a 2,0 English V4, last one was a 2,4 York diesel)
Ford Germany did nothing with rally cause Germans like stuff they can obsessively practice and perfect so they're road race fan-bois, so Ford Sweden did nothing for rally (Only a parts manager at the dealership in Linköping brought over all the way bad stuff, but a dealer isn't like an importer, so...
The field was left wide open to Opel to dominate and that coupled with Opel making a run of Asconas stock with 2 x 45 Solexs ment the car was Group2 legal easier than making an Escort or Fiat (which also had Group 2 ringers with 2 x 44 downdraft Webers)....

By the early 1990s the all cast iron 2,0 8v Opels were making about an honest 210hp but the cost to do that was about 3 times the cost you could make a 2,3 8v Volvo motor make 230hp
Things like 1500 SEK for a set of rings (made by Götze in Germany) for an Opel versus 300 SEK for a set of rings (made by Götze in Germany) didn't help...

At that point, under then then current rules Opel had hit a dead end with the head, they couldn't just drop in some Saab rods and cheaper VW forged pistons like I did here, they had to use stock (horrible short) 128.5mm c-c Opel rods or use the 1988 onward soooooooper SOOOOPER Bitchin 2.0 Xe16v Kadett E motor and Volvo was just beginning serious development.

Additionally Ascona B 2 door shells were getting scarce between rust and the wholesale genocide committed by rally drivers so 240s started to dominate (until they got rarer and then 740s and 940s took over and I think were allowed a 2.5 motor for some reason).

And then came the "2 Valve Evo" head...now 265hp was the new short black dress.

The old Ascona A and Manta A chassis weren't bad, and they were certainly a hellovalot better than the common 510, Corolla, RX2/RX3/RX7 things here with vague sloppy recirculating ball steering with 16 to 18 turns lock to lock of horrible sloppy vague "steering"..So back in early to late 80s I could keep 4-5 Opel guys happy with 2,2 rack guys for $115, final drives for cheap, even close ratio gearsets for around $300 and build motors that just kept on going for years.

This was one of the coolest and most interesting things John has posted in a while. Thanks for sharing John, love hearing this sort of information smiling smiley
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mekilljoydammit
Daniel DeRosia
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Re: Volvo 240 Rally build
October 18, 2016 06:43PM
I always love learning history of the "why" of things. I assume the Ascona and Manta 400 were about as rare as hen's teeth?
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