colt steering upgrade

Our 77 colt has no successfully completed two events!

Besides the rear dif, the biggest concerns are brakes and steering. We are looking to get these issues addressed before rally WV.

The brakes at RTN were horrendous. I don't know how WIlson/stu drove the car as well as they did. The Pedal has a lot of travel before doing much, and even then seems to do pretty little with a terrible feel to it. We had suspicions that the rear drums were not adjusted, but they seem to be fine.

I havn't searched much for tips on brakes here yet, but I am sure there is a ton of info so I will hold off on that. I can't seem to find much on steering upgrades.

The steering wheel seems to fluctuate where it resides on straightaways by as much as 1/4 of a turn. FIrst things mentioned to us were the steering rods bending, which made sense from the way things felt. Looking at the car to add the suggested bracing (welding an piece of angle iron to the links to stiffen it) we discovered it had already been done.

My first thought of swapping a Corolla AE86 crossmember in, allowing us to use the rack as well as corolla brakes/spindles/struts. I had good luck with the stock brakes on my A@86 although they were pretty small. SUprisingly the control arms on the colt are beefier/longer than the Corolla's so I won't be using them. It looks like it woudl be super easy to use Corolla spindles, brakes, uprights with the Colt cross member.

My question is swapping to a rack/pinion worth the time/effort or should we stick with the box and just remedy it's issues.

If we do go with a rack I don't think the the corolla rack will have thing inner tie rods far enough in to match the inner control arm mount. Any tips on a good rack to pick? ...or if we are on the right track?


Thank you!

Front:
1986-87 Saab 900 vented front discs.
Sumitomo 4 piston calipers:

iron progressive ones from Toyota pick ups
alloy ones from 2nd gen RX7.

Rear:
Some nice disc and VOLVO 240 reap caliper with 1.5" pisons and big pad.

Size master(s) to match.


your struts are similar so you can copy this:


As for steering, and for that matter the front end in general: think about using something a bit more common.
Last time at the Pull-a=part there were zero old Corollas, 1 Xratty and 11 old Volvos.

Maybe the easiest thing is get a LHD quick rack for a MkII Escort.

The important thing is that everything choice, fitting servive etc will be a lot easier if you can go front mount . Kitty says you shouldnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

If you are going to have to fab up the mounts for a rack anyway why not look at one that there would be a lot of at a rally like a VW. You can get a quick ratio kit for the manual racks for pretty cheap. When I switched to a manual rack on my 'rocco I was able to get 2 racks with tie rods and ends for less than $60.

John,

Just to clear this up, the first grouping with Saab discs, then sumitom caliper is one setup,

then the second recomends RX7 calipers with Toyota Truck discs... is that right? I probably already have the truck discs, and the RX7 calipers are in route so that would be choice. Now if I can jsut get that in our 13" wheels...

As for the steering... Is that a Commodah in the backround? Are you taunting me, showing me pictures of a AE86 as I work on a mitsushitsi?

As for choosing the rack, I am assuming I need the distance between the two inner tie rods to be approximately the same distance as the distance between the left and right inner control are pivot to avoid bump steer. Am I on the right track?

This measurmant (between the lower control arm mounts) is only 19" on our car, making for a really narrow rack. Looking at the front suspension design I can see where all the travel comes from (I don't how much, but there is a lot of it). I am thinking it would be best to keep the colt cross member and control arms if I can find a rack that will work with them.

The Shouldnmmmmmmm at the end... was that saying you should mess with the rack? or you shouldnmmm mess with the rack, or non related?

I don't see where the flex is coming from if the cross link is already braced. I am tempted to locate new tie rods and links... if available, and put it back together.

Volvos are a lot less common down here in the south, its not like the NW with a subaru or volvo on every corner. I looked for the disc rear end you mentioned, but I only found them on carpart.com and it was listed as being out of a 7 series.

GOod point. I any idea of the dimensions of a basic A2 rack? I think I am going to be looking for something that is approximately 19.5" in between inner tie rod mounts with a total of 5 inches of movements. Seems pretty narrow.

mhooper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John,
>
> Just to clear this up, the first grouping with
> Saab discs, then Sumitomo caliper is one setup,

I wuz saying I did the vented Saab 900 on the Paul Morgan car with the Toiletta pick up caliper, and that maybe the RX7 caliper would work too.
This was back in 1987 and the second gen RX7 was just out somewhere around there.

Can't recall is the disc was placed over the hub like modern stuff, but that would be the preferred way rather than bolted up from the back like stock.
>
> then the second recomends RX7 calipers with
> Toyota Truck discs... is that right?

No the only thing off the Toyota pick up was the caliper.


I probably
> already have the truck discs, and the RX7 calipers
> are in route so that would be choice. Now if I can
> jsut get that in our 13" wheels...

We used some 14" Starion wheels or something. You can see the caliper luring behind this wheel:


>
> As for the steering... Is that a Commodah in the
> backround? Are you taunting me, showing me
> pictures of a AE86 as I work on a mitsushitsi?

No that's a Xratty streetcar with an early 90s GpA spec 390 bhp 4x4 powertrain.
>
> As for choosing the rack, I am assuming I need the
> distance between the two inner tie rods to be
> approximately the same distance as the distance
> between the left and right inner control are pivot
> to avoid bump steer. Am I on the right track?


Yep.

>
> This measurmant (between the lower control arm
> mounts) is only 19" on our car, making for a
> really narrow rack. Looking at the front
> suspension design I can see where all the travel
> comes from (I don't how much, but there is a lot
> of it). I am thinking it would be best to keep the
> colt cross member and control arms if I can find a
> rack that will work with them.

Yeah that's sorta why I suggested the MkII Escort.
They are also a narrow car and quick racks are readily available.
They are front rack so there's a pan issue but pans are sheetmetal and weld easily, and not really a wear item.
VW stuff is rear mount as your Colt stuff but VW stuff is none too stout (I've rebuilt a few) I think a front mount is so much easier to service that its worth a fair bit of fucking around cause racks do die, so much the better if you can whip it out in a few minutes.

In the Vodge Dolt Paul used a 2.2 turn Saab 96 rack but the nearness to the firewall and the press of time meant he never moved the hole in the firewall over to get a better angle of approach. (Plus he did crazy amount of neg camber, we measured 9 degrees neg once after I taunted him that it was 10* and he insisted it was 3*, so we bet a nickle and by golly it was 9!---that coupled with bad toe OUT made for some bizarre steering---ttoo bad he never corrected or the "World Class shop that "service the car for 2 1/2 season for the next owner never did a alignment---nor the current owner)

With a front mount, the angles are easier just from the distance.
>
> The Shouldnmmmmmmm at the end... was that saying
> you should mess with the rack? or you shouldnmmm
> mess with the rack, or non related?

Kitty was reading as I was typing and decided to write that, I think the kitty meant you should mess with the rack. Can't ask now cause Kitty's sleeping.
>
> I don't see where the flex is coming from if the
> cross link is already braced. I am tempted to
> locate new tie rods and links... if available, and
> put it back together.

Yeah maybe. All depends on what you're used to. Plenty of guys have gone fast in 510s and Corollas with "whip and capstan" steering or even "steering oars" or
whatever the Rube Goldberg stuff is that eventually get to wheels to sorta turn is.
But I'm a bike guy in my heart of hearts and I like very direct, very accurate steering
>
> Volvos are a lot less common down here in the
> south, its not like the NW with a subaru or volvo
> on every corner. I looked for the disc rear end
> you mentioned, but I only found them on
> carpart.com and it was listed as being out of a 7
> series.

Daaaayym. Sucks being down there.
Listen, I'm sure we can find 240 axles in the Richmond area for peanuts, is that too far?
Wait I can ask some Turbo-brickers in the Atlanta area.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2007 11:08PM by john vanlandingham.

No, richmond is not too far. I come through there every so often (we bought the car there!) Cost would be a bigger factor.

So when you go front mount, you fab up the piece that goes between the lower ball joint and the strut to go to the front. A corolla one might swap L for R, but the colt has a trinagular pattern to the strut and would not be symetrical.

THis is definately too much to dig into befreo rally WV. For now I am going to try to replace what I can, remove, reinforce, and reinstall the idler arm mount (I went under there with a prybar this evening to see what would move, it seems to have a good deal of flex), and redo the bracing on the crosslink to be stiffer.

I would bet Wilson will be able to source a MKII rack ( I have no idea how he finds the stuff he does!). If we have to change up the pan and such (we will, there is very little room on the front side) then this would probably be better addressed when the car is apart for the 4 link.

Thanks you for all the input.

Hooper

Go to http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm
Click on rack mounting kits.
Look at the 68-72 chevel kit(3 down in the middle)
Tie rod mounting method may be what you need for bump steer.

Nick Leone

---

Nick Leone
Former scca member

That's pretty slick... That picture of the mounting setup actually helped be dicipher Howe rack and Pinions. I was recomended to the site, but couldn't picture how they would apply.

$3k for a rack, waaahh!

Mike:

Woodward racks are available at Stock Car Products for $390.00.

Here's some literature and specs:

http://www.woodwardsteering.com/Cat05/Cat05%20PDF%2063-79.pdf

http://www.woodwardsteering.com/Cat05/Cat05%20PDF%20106-122.pdf

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike:
>
> Woodward racks are available at Stock Car Products
> for $390.00.
>
> Here's some literature and specs:

And LHD Escort MkII racks for less.
>
>
>
>
>
> My opinions are my own and are not to be construed
> as representing the viewpoint of any other person
> or organization. How's that for legalese?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Var Maj en få sådan en sak?

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And LHD Escort MkII racks for less.
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Var Maj en få sådan en sak?

menar Var finnar man en sånt?

I England naturligvis.

As for Volvo bak axel here a message from a local in Atlanta:

Re: peace. It's what I wish nearly everybody.
Thanks John. You're a better man than I.

The best place to get volvo parts (or any used parts) in Metro Atlanta is at Pullapart... www.pullapart.com. There are two locations... Atlanta North, and Atlanta South (directions to each on the website). They tell you the year of car, as well as the exact row location.

The only catch is that people must pull the parts from the vehicles themselves (which is no big deal to most car-guys ). Price of a complete rear end (sans discs/calipers) is about $70 IIRC. The "Atlanta South" location has by far the best selection. On average, there's usually 20-30 240's with as many 740's to choose from. I am heading back this weekend to hopefully pick up a GM T5 to take with me to NJ... The fords always seem to be picked over. I am going to throw that damn getrag in the river where it belongs.

Hoppas det hjälper!

>
> john vanlandingham Wrote:


> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > And LHD Escort MkII racks for less.
> >
> >
> > John Vanlandingham
> > Sleezattle, WA, USA
> >
> > Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
> >
> > www.jvab.f4.ca
>
>
>
>
> My opinions are my own and are not to be construed
> as representing the viewpoint of any other person
> or organization. How's that for legalese?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.