Mustang or ....
Posted by RnJ
Got an old half assed drag 84 mustang sitting here that I need to do something with.
What's the general opinion on these for playing on the stages? Might not turn the best, but it seems like stages are getting straighter and that's what they're good at. Anybody ever run a manual valve body C4 on stage? Has a transbrake for digging ditches on the launch. Also have a T5 I could put in, but that thing shifts like my old john deere. Has an 8.8 4.10 posi with drums. Stock rear suspension setup. Switch to the 9" or just get rid of the drums? With aluminum headed 302 and the tubular k member that are in it, is it still much more nose heavy than a 2.3 turbo? Or should I part that thing and build one of my starlets with the 3tc turbo? |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
The basoc layout of the car looks what i call "pretty OK, not bad" And I maintain we don't need "perfect' we need "pretty good". And with just a little work and a little stiffening--and current required cages add a LOT of stiffeneing---the cars can do fine--ie be limited my the driver.
Probably not.. Bill Holmes in his moster Frod Pickup ran some auto-tragic but who knows and it was built.. I doubt there would be any advantage to a auto tragic...and I think a C4 is just a tarted up C3 and I am familiar some with how crappy those are. (The come in autotragic Xratties, wifey car has one..ugh)
If you're T5 shift shitty its that T5, they shift just hunky dory fine if they're not whooped to death tired.
First the 8.8 is fine, get a spool or shim the hell out of the LSD. And yeah dump the drums. Final drive, well that depends on the motor. And the tires, we tend to have tires an inch or inch and a half larger overall diameter that popular little low profile things so we tend to get shorter to compensate for that and then lower for the way loose surface sucks power and mainly for trading top speed for better acelleration in 3rd and 4th. 4.3 is not really too short...and depending on which T5 you have and which first gear 4.3 can still get you just over 40-42mph And yeah get some discs and calipers...make sure the caliper piston is at least 1.5"
Yeah regardless of all the absurd claims we see forever its still a couple of hundred pounds heavier---and the way V8 deliver power is all wrong when you have just 2wd..Our job is to move forwards, not downwards. And on gravel with 2wd there's no point in HP beyond 220--230, you just gnaw thru tires easier.
As much as i like Starlets and the insane fun little motor---and was just this morning talking to a guy who has a nasty one built for his Toyota KE whatever---there's no obvious advantage to a little Starlet..and those faster roads makes the short wheelbase nimbleness in high speed twitchiness and instability..where a Moose-angst with 100.5" wheelbase is pretty good--clear advantage. Only disadvantage I see is short travel suspension but that's easy to cure, and a general weakness in shell--but everything modern is as well so weld@ John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
TylerEstes Tyler Estes Godlike Moderator Location: Blackwater, Missouri Join Date: 01/12/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 75 Rally Car: E30 325E "practice girl" |
And? I realize that the 240, Xratty, and Golf are probably your three best bets. As you say quite often. But it's nice to see some variety and some people driving cool stuff. E30's. Mustangs. Starlets. Mantas. Corvettes. Beetles. Whatever. The whole rally situation is pretty fucked. That's why I'm out. Probably for a long while. I say the dude should just build something he likes and he thinks is cool. It's not like more than 5% of rally projects ever see the stage, anyway. Why do you even need brakes? Are you some sort of pansy or something? |
That's the problem with the Starlets. I actually do like them, and you can not like your rally car. It really is the long brutal end to any car. ....Been out of the game for awhile, but built and raced several of my own cars, serviced and codrove for lots of others. |
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heymagic Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
C4 isn't the worst trannie in the world and an AT is used in lots of off road vehicles. The car will need some stiffening to be really fast and reliable but it will be plenty quick in a regional event as is. If I were building another car it would be a Mustang as first choice just because.
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Carl S Carl Seidel Ultra Moderator Location: Fe Mtn, MI Join Date: 02/10/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 765 Rally Car: 1993 honderp |
This is what Mike Hurst had to say on this topic, from here: http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?47530-Any-Fox-body-guys-on-the-forum
Yay Rubberbandits! |
aj_johnson A.J. Johnson Infallible Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
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^^^ If you mean a numerically low 1st gear, that answer is easy. It makes the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts closer and it makes the car perform flat out a lot better as the wheel torque drops in each higher gear. If you ever rallied with modest HP and a crappy 2-3 (wide) shift ratio, the answer becomes obvious after just a few stages: the wheel torque drops a LOT when going to 3rd, just when the wind resistance in the 40-60 mph range is building up seriously. A steep 1st gear (numerically high) tends to be almost useless on the tightest turns, moreso with a steep rear gear; and you only launch from a dead stop into a stage once where a steep gear does you any good.... Mark B.
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heymagic Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Not sure 2-3 is affected by the 1st gear ratio but Mark is 100% on the mark..(groan). Traditional Japanese gearing gives you a near useless first gear when the final drive is 4.5 or greater. You take off, roll a few feet and grab 2nd. 2nd is a bit high to take off in. Sometimes you'll come into a hairpin/accute corner and bog in 2nd but 1st is way low to maintain speed. My last couple of Nissans had a dog leg 5spd with 1st gear being out. 2nd thru 5th was the normal H pattern and worked very well but a taller 1st would have been awesome. Toyota was friendlier than Nissan or Mazda on the 2-3 ratios if memory serves.
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
OK good but who are you? You notice that nearly 99,9% of the people here have their real names up in either that sidebar thing over to the left or in the signature? And notice they also have their real location? Not "Misery" but "Bumfuck, Misery" Well thats cause that's about the only rule... Somewhere there's a "Read this first, Noob" thing, read it. And of course anything can work--read that "with enough money and time spent, anything eventually can be made to work".. But the sport has changed, most involved aren't mechanics and less can do fabrication work, so that means a lot of easy mods that can make cars a lot more fun are now considered waaaaaaaaaaaaay complicated. Starlet, Mustang whatever you do the same things just scaled up or down as needed...Mod the shell once then its fun forever. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
aj_johnson A.J. Johnson Infallible Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
So you are still using first for the most part only for the start. You are trying to maintain a usable 1st for starts but make the 2nd-3rd-4th more friendly for the rest of the stage. I guess I get confused every time I see "1st gear good to 40mph" and I assume that for any 25-30 mph corners you might actually use 1st. I've never owned a car that liked to shift back into 1st after it was going much over 10-15 mph and was assuming that the T5 somehow made that shift possible at higher speeds. |
aj_johnson A.J. Johnson Infallible Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
I understand the appeal of good 2-3-4 but cannot fathom shifting to 1st once you are moving. Its the MPH ratings thrown in that are confusing me. if 1 is good to 40 and 2 is good to 55 it would seem that you would have to use 1st or bog 2nd. I've just never personally owned or known a trans that liked to shift into 1st. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2013 08:49PM by aj_johnson. |
heymagic Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Bring up the revs and be a man about it. 1st gear downshits require a bit of finesse in some trannies. Try a different gear lube also. Some trans like Motul others Redline or good old 10/40 motor oil. I usually ran a 4.86 or 5.13 ish gear, 13 or 14 inch tires and rarely had to use first after takeoff.
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darkknight9 Kirk Coughlin Elite Moderator Location: Saint Paul, MN Join Date: 01/08/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 493 Rally Car: Dreaming of escorts and xrats |
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