To answer this and Gene's point about the relationship of 1st gear to the 2-3 shift...if you get a 1st gear ratio of around 2.2 or 2.4 like in a close ratio box, then the 2 and AND the 3rd gear ratios usually have to move closer and thus give a better 2-3 shift. 1st and 3rd gears are indeed not directly related but they do all ususally move together somewhat. The use of 1st in rallies depends entirely upon the roads you rally upon. In rallies like STPR and some of the RWV stages and the old Cherokee and Chattahoochee rallies for examples (all of which are in the Appalachian mtns), you will regularly use 1st gear for a few reeealy tight hairpins and especially for switchback intersections, and so a good 1st gear ratio is highly valuable. And you could use 1st gear even in some tight, rough corners in upper MI; dunno if those still exist. |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
That's the one.. Oh you still need to go correct your name and location, OK? With that box you can use even up to 4.6 if you have wheezy n.a. motor, and if it'll wheeze to 7000 still get a decent run in 1st.. instead of the '2 car length 1st" We can't do much more advice cause we don't know who you are, what ebvents you've done what in and where you are, the name and location lets us say "Oooooooh you've done xx events so even if you're someplace that has some masochistic fixation on Wawwy Amerwica, you've already done xx events so pass their stupid "no turbo---but ANY LEVEL n.a.---for beginner rule" So if you could do turbo, the ol Lima 2300 SOHC ain't fancy but their are stooooopid reliable even at say 200-210 hp level---which is all you need if you open the throttle... so if you could do turbo, that box and a 4.3 and you're done with engine/clutch/box/axle.. Leaving just cage and suspension and brakes. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
RALLYRS Mike Ball Mega Moderator Location: Simi Valley,Ca. Join Date: 07/15/2011 Age: Ancient Posts: 466 Rally Car: Nope...I wish...RWD 2 Door Jeep XJ 4.0 5-spd Dirt-o-cross car(we have no grass!)2.3 ZX3 rallyx car(sold) |
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Glad to see the comments above on the C4; explains why I could put 300 hp/350 ftlb torque in front of one and beat on that trannie for years, plus tow a rally car, with no complaints from that trannie.
I learned a lot about auto trannies and rally/race driving just recently, and in an unexepcted way. I got the chance to drive my SIL's 2009 Challenger with the auto-slap stick and compare it with the 6 speed manual in mine. Having driven RWD rally cars for a long time, I am used to using the engine torque both ways; with the right technique you can kick out the rear and steer the car with both throttle on and dropping the throttle off; the reverse torque from the engine drag is part of maneuvering the car; it works well, escpecialy to kick the rear out under hard deceleration into corners. With the 6 speed Challenger manual, you can do the same thing in setting the car in and out of corners like on a RWD manual trannie rally car; it's just not as dramatic as in a rally and on gravel, but the same weight transfers and such can be done. With the SIL's auto trans Challenger, and using it in normal mode, you can't get the same weight transfers with the auto, because the non-locked torque converter in the lower gears does not allow you to work with the engine's reverse torque when the throttle is released. However, if you put it in manual shift mode, then the trannie controller keeps the torque converter locked or essentially so all the time. With that simple change the auto trannie'd car suddenly started acting like a manual trannie car, and the reverse torque of the engine can be used. It was an eye-opener for me, and hlepd me understand the deficiencies of an auto trans in racing; that may change long term with new models and electronic controls. SO with a C4, you won't have any option for the essentially locked torque converter (at least that I know of), and you will lose that extra car maneuverability and handling tehcniqute that you can achieve with a manual trannie. BTW, funny thing....my SIL is a spinster, 3rd grade school teacher....she made quite a stir in her small town when she drove into the school lot in a shiny new black Challenger R/T instead of the 12 year old Honda Civic....!! Mark B. |
heymagic Banned Mega Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
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The C4 that I have is a full drag deal. 3 speed, full manual reverse valve body, trans brake, big cooler, small edge convertor, reverse lockout Hurst shifter.
It doesn't shift unless you want it to. I'll have to look around and see if any of the off roaders use them and how they hold up. I've lost 2 clutches and seen tons of people with manual gearbox issues, so this is something I might test out. |
alkun Albert Kun Elite Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
Sounds good to me, might well hold up to the V8 better and you can just keep one foot on the brake and one on the gas. Sounds like your major tasks are adding some good rear discs. What kind of gearing do you have in the back? A simple goal for rally is to go as low as you can, with a redline in top gear of somewhere around 120mph. V8 torgue is in a different spot, so that will change things, but its somewhere to start. Steering might also be improved by a quick rack or quickener gearbox. |
Greg Donovan Greg Donovan Senior Moderator Location: Fargo, ND Join Date: 04/12/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 423 Rally Car: 95 Impreza Sedan |
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Greg Donovan Greg Donovan Senior Moderator Location: Fargo, ND Join Date: 04/12/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 423 Rally Car: 95 Impreza Sedan |
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Yup. Kids. Me too. Don't have time to go in circles every weekend, so I'm going back to the 2 rally a year program. It'd be a lot easier for me if there was a good platform to put a sbc in, but the old ford will do. Distributor is in a better location I guess. |
Carl S Carl Seidel Senior Moderator Location: Fe Mtn, MI Join Date: 02/10/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 765 Rally Car: 1993 honderp |
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I don't want to be sleeping in it. I'm going to build this rustang and see how that goes. Where would one get the weld in 4 link mounts to cut into the floor? |