Build vs Buy - the untold stories...

I bought my first car. Ran the piss out of it, filled up the log book and started another.

Then I killed it.

I figured I should build the replacement, since there were a few things I didn't like about the "bought" car.

This was 2010.

I'm still "building" the new car. It is nowhere close to being complete (although it does have a roll cage and logbook). If I thought I could sell it, I would.

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fliz
I'm still "building" the new car. It is nowhere close to being complete (although it does have a roll cage and logbook). If I thought I could sell it, I would.

And then after selling it, buy another built car?

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"The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and have so much more to learn." - Claude Rouelle, Optimum G lecture June, 2011

This is a pretty interesting string of thoughts....it made me start thinking of my own situation regarding building/buying and even buying at all. I dont want to hijack the thread but I am curious what people think is the point at which actually owning a caged car is worth it given the number of stage events one will realistically run.

My situation is that I am running a golf in scca rallyx (aka grasso-x) and have been able to run about 8 events in 2013 so far, with 2 more by end of year. These are almost always a "leave on sat at 4am and be back home the same day by 8pm", with the yearly 2-day divisional race 6 hours away. My question is how many actual stage events do you need to be committed to before it becomes worth it to own a full stage car?

In my case, I probably will never do more than 2 stage events in a year given my budget and ability to take time off etc. But I am able to sneak away 1x per month or so to do some cheap RallyX. I undertand a stage rally event will require at least a few days to even 5 or 6 days of a time commitment.

At what point does it make more sense to keep running my golf in rallyx and then for the 2 events MAYBE i might run to actually rent a car. I am talking budget level particpation in a G2 car. I have no expectations of getting on the podium but rather I want to have a ton of fun, meet some new people and develop further both my mechanical skills and driving skill. With that said, I want to compete as a driver and be the fastest driver that "I" can be....if that puts me near the end of the pack, then all that means is I still gotta work harder and get more seat time.

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ReluctantGolf
am curious what people think is the point at which actually owning a caged car is worth it given the number of stage events one will realistically run.

I can tell you that I am a much happier person when I have a running rally/race car. Just general overall level of well being/happiness. It's one of those hindsight things though.
Just the knowledge that the car is pretty much rally ready always makes me a little happier.
If I could pull off one stage event per year and maybe a few local hill climb events I would be really happy.
Honestly with todays ruleset and cage rules, I could see a decently built car lasting a decade or more. If it costs you $10k to build it and you get 10 years of running it, even if that's just rallycross here and there and NEFR each year, maybe BRS or other occasional east coast events, that's probably worth it.

There are a few people in every region that just do their home event and whatever else they can during the rest of the year.

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Grant Hughes

That's really good information to know, Grant. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on it.

I'm looking like I'm in the same boat as Kevin (just 1 year behind him). In seeing at how everything stacks up, I was beginning to become discouraged that it wouldn't be worth the time and investment required to even show up at any events and slide through the woods. One day I would like to start running more and more events, but the whole 'getting started' thing has been daunting when looking at the cost vs. benefit. Knowing that (to some) it's worth it to be there and even run in events without planning on being competitive there, is encouraging.

I think I'll wrench on my Mazda some tonight.

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"The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and have so much more to learn." - Claude Rouelle, Optimum G lecture June, 2011

one thing i have found helps with a build
is to putter for an hour or two every night
do one or two jobs well then call it a day

don't try and build a whole car by your self in a weekend, lots of thing will get done poorly

its like eating an elephant , one bit at a time

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Past few posts have been great insight. I'm not too far along in the "rally" stage of my build. The car will be RA log booked hopefully before Halloween(getting the cage now) but, the car will be "race" ready. I'll be able to shake it down and run other stuff prior to getting on stage(shooting for nemedji/ojibwe 2015.) My car is constantly in my mind. Deadlines. Work needed to be done. Costs. Logistics on running events. Etc. Its all kind of stressful taking the huge bite at one time. Actually getting the car built. Shits expensive! When I drew the build out on paper though, I asked myself, what am I building? A race car or a rally car? IMO, building a rally only car, on a blue collar budget IS a waste of money. Running 1- 2events a year? Realistically?

I'm building a race car. Pop the front axles, put the tarmac suspension setup on and now i can road race/drift. Rally the car as much as I can throughout the year and RACE all the local stuff. When I review the amount of rally events through out the country vs the amount of auto motor sports in MN alone, I'd be an idiot to build a dedicated anything. When I daydream out in the shop , making broom broom noises sittin in the drivers seat, one day its tandoming with a buddy at a drift event, the next is spitting up dirt on a stage somewhere.

Also, some people just have cars in their blood. Working on them, racing, cruising whatever. To me personally, cars aren't a hobby. Its a lifestyle. So like Grant said, about getting a decade out of a race car, to me that's 10 years of memories, excitement, mini vacations, motivation, pride etc, even if the car never sees an entire "season."
Some people buy Bayliners that only see the water 3 weekends a year. Or cabins that only get lived in for a few weeks out of the year. Kind of one of those to each is own type of deals. What turns the ol crank lol. You'd keel over if you found out cash wise, what my dad and myself have spent and collected just to hunt stupid ducks for, realistically, like 30-40 days out of the year lol! My wife doesn't even like to talk about it ha!

Here's my 2 cents.

Would I have rather bought a car then build it? Maybe... Personally, I'm horrible at saving up tons of money a month. How people manage to dish up $10,000-$15,000 on a finished car shortly after it’s gone up for sale when they haven’t been saving/looking is beyond me. Several years ago before I bought my stock Wagon there was a built White 2.5L OL Wagon FS on Special Stage for $10,000. Which is exactly what I had been wanting, right down to the color. But there was no way I could save that much in that time and I'm not a fan of having car payments let alone the idea of payments on something that during any event rather it be a Hill Climb, RallyCross or Stage rally could end up being wadded up causing me to every month still have to dish out money to some guy for something that's destroyed.

This then brings me to my route. Buy a part with every paycheck or every few paychecks. Luckily I got sent to a out of state job where I made tons of extra funds in a very short period of time. So instead of spending it all on what was the minimum I went with stuff that I really wanted or thought that someday I might. And the car has still yet to see a single engine or drivetrain “mod”.

But now that the car is ready to head out to a Stage Rally at any given moment it's stuck with going to every local RallyCross and most of the Hill Climbs. There was only 2 Hill Climbs this season that I didn't make, 1 because I was out a CO-Driver at the last minute and didn't want to spend money on someone else just to sit there as a ballast. The other one being Monarch which is too steep to be worth going.

This brings my rambling to why I still haven't seen a Stage mile since the car was finished in March. Funds, the same funds that prevents most mortals from doing the same. I've taken up the low food diet back in December which has consisted of the cheapest things I can find and my extracurricular activities have been at a minimum, both of which has made life rather dual. And my rent is super cheap. But at the end of the month I still can't seem to find how to save the needed $1,500-$2,000 to make it to the nearest events.

And that brings me to my biggest question. How does everyone else manage to do it? I’m asking this question very seriously too. So much that I’m willing to ask how people do it when I’ve been keeping expenses low on my $55-$65k yearly before taxes (edited income for my screwed up).

If you want to see a Stage Rally from inside the car. Go the route of what 1 of the newer locals has been doing the last 2 years and become a CO-Driver for someone who somehow pulls money out of thin air. And when they aren't driving sell yourself to the next highest bidder. Then you won’t find yourself spending money on anything at an event. Trying to come up with a Rally that he hasn't chimed in on about having been there has become rather annoying.

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R.Sealey
http://www.facebook.com/SealeySport
http://www.youtube.com/ryolse



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2013 02:24PM by ryolse.

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MeCalledEvan

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fliz
I'm still "building" the new car. It is nowhere close to being complete (although it does have a roll cage and logbook). If I thought I could sell it, I would.

And then after selling it, buy another built car?

That would be one option.

If I could find a consistent, competitive G2 rental, that would be even better. I doubt I'll be able to run more than 2-3 events/year with my kids in daycare.

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NoCoast

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ReluctantGolf
am curious what people think is the point at which actually owning a caged car is worth it given the number of stage events one will realistically run.

If I could pull off one stage event per year and maybe a few local hill climb events I would be really happy.
Honestly with todays ruleset and cage rules, I could see a decently built car lasting a decade or more. If it costs you $10k to build it and you get 10 years of running it, even if that's just rallycross here and there and NEFR each year, maybe BRS or other occasional east coast events, that's probably worth it.

There are a few people in every region that just do their home event and whatever else they can during the rest of the year.

Thank you for your perspective. Yeah, I was leaning towards the same conclusion of still having a caged car knowing that I will be running 6 to 8 rallyx events and realistically one and maybe two stage rally event. Your point on getting 10 years out of a car really makes me rethink which car i should make the investment in for said cage. I dont know that its worth caging my mk2 golf given its age and parts availability in say 5 to 7 years from now. I dont know, then again, its been 21 years since my car was built and I can still find most of what I need between online vendors and the vwvortex community. Makes me wonder whether it isnt worth doing something like a later model focus or fiesta given how cheap they are and how parts while being more expensive will probably be available over 5 to 10 years from now...

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ryolse
Here's my 2 cents.

Would I have rather bought a car then build it? Maybe... Personally, I'm horrible at saving up tons of money a month. How people manage to dish up $10,000-$15,000 on a finished car shortly after it’s gone up for sale when they haven’t been saving/looking is beyond me.
.....your right, its tough to save money in a consistent way month after month...what i did was save a but every month that i could and then let time work for me and wait till the day came that i had enough to pull the trigger on a car i wanted.




. Trying to come up with a Rally that he hasn't chimed in on about having been there has become rather annoying.......I am not sure what you mean by this or if this was meant for me...and as for how people get the money together to do an event, i mean i guess everyone makes different levels of income. I can absolutely understand how tough if it is to be able to do an event on the mentioned income level. I guess waiting until you DO have enough for an event would make it that much more sweet when the day comes! and i hope yours is coming soon!

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ReluctantGolf

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ryolse
. Trying to come up with a Rally that he hasn't chimed in on about having been there has become rather annoying.......I am not sure what you mean by this or if this was meant for me...and as for how people get the money together to do an event, i mean i guess everyone makes different levels of income. I can absolutely understand how tough if it is to be able to do an event on the mentioned income level. I guess waiting until you DO have enough for an event would make it that much more sweet when the day comes! and i hope yours is coming soon!

It wasn't at all directed towards you. "1 of the newer locals has been doing the last 2 years", we're in Colorado.

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R.Sealey
http://www.facebook.com/SealeySport
http://www.youtube.com/ryolse

i think i enjoy building them as much rallying them any more

so i guess its all what your out to do

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

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ryolse
And that brings me to my biggest question. How does everyone else manage to do it? I’m asking this question very seriously too. So much that I’m willing to ask how people do it when I’ve been keeping expenses low on my $55-$65k yearly take home earnings.

I make my navvie pay for it. On a serious note, if you've saved up and purchased $2k worth of parts in a year...and you don't need to buy those parts again next year, there's your entry fee for one event.

Ojibwe which is a "close" event for Colorado people ended up costing us about $2200. That includes entry fee, our 1 event RA liscences, pump gas at the rally, diesel for the tow, and hotel. The only thing we could've done to save money would be to camp, so on a bare bones, you could drop ~$500 from that. In terms of fixing what we broke, I found a new engine for $750 over the weekend from a 528i, probably going to drop another $100-200 into it trying to make it more reliable than the last one.

Dave

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ryolse
And that brings me to my biggest question. How does everyone else manage to do it? I’m asking this question very seriously too. So much that I’m willing to ask how people do it when I’ve been keeping expenses low on my $55-$65k yearly take home earnings.

It sounds like you just aren't that good at saving money honestly.... I take home the same amount, I own a home, have a $1000+ a month mortgage, a rally car that has done 5 events, with two more planned in the next 4 months, and I even got my dream car a few months ago (supercharged Lotus Elise) that I make payments on. No credit cards, no student loans.

I still manage to have money to do a few events a year. Realistically I could do four events a year. This year I did two since I was saving money for a week long honeymoon at an all-inclusive resort ($$$, but only get to honeymoon once! (hopefully)) as well as helping pay for my wedding that is next week. So this year I limited myself to the two local races which are a few hours away.

I got extremely lucky with my car, and got a logbooked car in decent shape for $1800 plus some WRX brakes from a kid who had no idea what he had out in Nashville, TN. I put maybe $1-2k into it with new safety gear and the misc stuff to do my first stage rally. Crashed it on the second to last stage, still had a blast. Spent $1k on a parts car, swapped engine and driveline, got some nice suspension, and went and did two events on that setup. Then got a nicer engine, better drivetrain, and now it's pretty well setup. I have put farrrr less than what some people are asking for a built OL car (which I think some prices are outrageous... but people are paying them ), and it's very well setup for a newbie. I feel like I am only at maybe 75% of the cars capability. Hoping to learn more over the next few events, then maybe step up and build my own OL killer car using the lessons I've learned from racing in this Legacy. Hopefully sell the legacy to someone else who can use it as their first stage rally car and get as much enjoyment out of it as I have.

I have footed most of the bills for the races, my best friend who is my co-driver will chip in for gas or hotel most of the time, but the entry fees, notes, hotel, fuel, etc. that lands mostly on me, I pay maybe... 80-90% of it. But that's what I expect for being a driver, everyone else is helping YOU to have fun, so I think it's insulting to expect them to pay for things.