Is there a reason you don't see (m)any Volvo S70s on here?
Posted by NTCarWash
NTCarWash Aaron Azzoli Infallible Moderator Location: Toronto, ON Join Date: 10/06/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 2 |
Hi everyone,
New to the forum and the world of rally in general. I have a quick question before the research bug gets me and I spend hours reading through the forums. Alright, not "before" necessarily, but I'm curious as to why my searches across the web for anything related to a Volvo S70 rally build seem to have turned up nothing? There seem to be a ton available in my neck of the woods, with cheap parts readily available at the scrappers. I own a 98 V70 GLT and there is a ton of support from the performance tuning community at various forums, but I haven't found anything on a rally build yet. 240s sure, but even a quick search of the forum for "850 build" doesn't bring up much. Am I not looking hard enough, or is there something to do with these vehicles that limits their performance/ability to survive rallying? Many thanks! Aaron |
fiasco Andrew Steere Godlike Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
They're big, they drive the wrong wheels for a Volvo, and 95% of them are auto-tragic gearboxes.
Good cars to comfortably eat up miles on the highway (recently inherited a 97 850 GLT), but the emissions systems are fussy as hell (gonna have to go get an emissions fail sticker this week on mine while I continue to swear at the Secondary Air System). Most of these cars also aren't down to the proper point on the derpreciation (see what I did there?) curve. Andrew Steere Lyndeborough, NH KB1PJY |
NTCarWash Aaron Azzoli Infallible Moderator Location: Toronto, ON Join Date: 10/06/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 2 |
Thanks for the reply. I sort of figured size might be an issue but I've always had the wagon so I don't actually know what the sedan feels like. When you say wrong wheels I take it you mean FWD rather than rear. Is this due to understeer or is it a general principle of rally, RWD over FWD?
I also have emissions coming up with a recurring SAS code. Have you considered the diode delete? I've just soldered one into a spare ecu, I'll be testing it out soon. http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/140772-sas-air-pump-deletewrite-up-with-pics/ |
fiasco Andrew Steere Godlike Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
|
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Maybe because there's more to a car than an OK engine. Real rally cars always change final drive--ring and pinion, and n.a. ones will, if there is any "interesting" work do to the engine, want close gear ratios.. And of course anything on loose surface will sooner or later want a decent multi-plate LSD... Suspension can be made for gravel use for anything...and I think there's some guy on this actual forum who has made all kinds of ssuspension that is evidently good enough for overall wins and top 5 placements in Nationals, and it gets better! I know that fucker has a Volvo FWD front knuckle and a front strut sitting in a pile in his garage and remember he was cussing about the miserable junk shit top mounts in the thing...Mere trifles though for that guy, just money i think he said.. So they may be common as road cars, but say you build one and even get Sooooper Bitchin Suspenders on it.. What will you do when you meet up with some bastid in an old rwd ____________ (fill in our favorite RWD cars: Xratty, 240 Volvo, Toyota Corolla or Celica, Nissan 240) who has some old wheezy motor but is 700lbs less weight and , because he was smart and listened, has a 4.88 or 5.35 axle ratio? He's gonna massacree you to death... 2 Examples for this year. This weekend in BC at Mountain Trails or whatever it was the car that nearly won the 2wd catagory had a stock ancient old POS cast iron 2300 SOHC Ford motor....He had god brakes, good suspension, and being a turbo all he had special was...... was............................................... WAS!!!!!! My own personal Toyota Supra Differential assembly with a 4.3 ratio (and a clutch plate diff, of course)(on loan). He's oafish-ally a Novice.. Simple old car and a little gearing to compensate for the taller tires we use... 2) Brendon Reeves , a young guy from Oztralia, a country where everything is upsde down, upset EVERYBODY by coming like 3rd or 4th overall in some little 1.6 normal aspirated thing---which was light, had good suspension, the right gear set. the right final drive, the right diff, and maybe 165 bhp.. Beat everybody but the million dollar teams of Ben Klock and 1-2 others... 1.6 liter but the right drive train parts... So see the point? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2013 10:13PM by john vanlandingham. |
imnotcrazy Don Kennedy Ultra Moderator Location: Reading, PA Join Date: 10/05/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 227 Rally Car: Impreza |
Good luck with that 850 GLT. I just dumped my wifes after 7 years of ownership. I've had several 140s and 240s but this is the last Volvo I'll ever own. It did have 175,000 miles on it, but . . . . . Don Kennedy |
fiasco Andrew Steere Godlike Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
What else should I be looking to fail spectacularly? Just went through the suspension and replaced almost all the soft parts. Next up is the seven-year-old timing belt...once I get the ECU to think the secondary air system is working properly. Andrew Steere Lyndeborough, NH KB1PJY |
wvonkessler Wilson von Kessler Professional Moderator Location: Lookout Mountain, GA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,127 Rally Car: Colts are in Finland; now '87 325i, '89 325i |
Had an 850 glt. Absolute pos. made me swear off volvos just like you don.
"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne "Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain |
alkun Albert Kun Junior Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
Strange that searches of the entire internet give no volvo 850 rallying in the dirt. They soom to do well in touring car.
I'd guess there are problems with weight distribution, groud clearance, suspension travel and engine/driveline toughness, basically all the things 240 and 740s have going for them. Plus 850s aren't ugly enough. |
heymagic Banned Ultra Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Sideways 5 cylinder FWD luxobarge. Junk. They tried to get fancy schmancy and failed. GM failed at early FWD, Ford failed at early FWD, Chrysler failed at early FWD, Nissan failed at early FWD, Toyota failed at early FWD . All larger, smarter and better financed than Volvo.
A very basic fact of racing is weight is your enemy. The 700 lbs JV mentioned is an obscene number in the racing world. Now if you build a monster Ford PU like our Bill Holmes runs then you can have BIG (albeit expensive) drivetrain parts, brakes, suspension and tires. When you add massive weight to a passenger car platform with small brakes, axles, transmissions and tires then the cost of doing business rises a boatload. JV can make you good suspenders and likely even suspension components. You will still burn up brakes and tires at a much quicker rate than others. The 850 was the death of a company that many of us will never understand. Suicide by frickin engineers. Use the 850 to fetch parts for the 240 project. |
phlat65 Sean Medcroft Senior Moderator Location: Edmonds, Washington Join Date: 02/12/2009 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,802 Rally Car: Building a Merkur |
|
imnotcrazy Don Kennedy Ultra Moderator Location: Reading, PA Join Date: 10/05/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 227 Rally Car: Impreza |
Bought the car from a friend who has sold and serviced (used) Volvos for many years. AFTER I bought it and had issues, he told me his opinion is Volvo was just building cars primarily for lease. They only wanted them to last 3-4 years. Problem #1. The HVAC system is controlled by 7 vacum motors. When I bought the car several of them didn't work, no heat at my feet. $800 later a dealer fixed MOST of them. Still had some not working when I got rid of the car. Problem #2. Can't replace a ball joint. Need to replace the whole A arm at $150 a pop. Replaced both sides long before I even had to think about them on my 200,000+ mile Subaru. Problem #3. Emissions air pump threw CEL several years ago. I replaced it no no avail. Luckily my friend did inspections and the car just wouldn't communicate with the PA emissions computer so he couldn't fail it because of that. Problem #4. Dash has a time and temperature display. Light to illuminate didn't work from day 1. Replaced the bulb (which required virtually removing the whole dash. Actually unbolted drivers half and lifted it up as high as possible twisting the dash and making it look ugly). Turns out it was not the bulb, but an (apparent) crack in the circuit board. Never tried to fix it after that. Problem #5. Fuel pump went. No big deal. Easy to get to from top. But IIRC cost $180. Problem #6. Ate oil. Mostly leaked it from what I could determine for most of half of the 7 years I owned it. Only driven about 8 miles daily by my wife to work. Had to check the oil at least every other week or it would have run dry. Those are my MAJOR gripes. Many other small things were irritating. Including the struts (or what ever you call them) that hold the back door of the wagon open. They were weak when I bought the car at 97,000 miles and 7 years old. Never even inquired about the cost or complexity of replacing them. Didn't want to know. A stick held it open if need be. Don Kennedy |
fiasco Andrew Steere Godlike Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
I think I've licked the CEL for the stupid emissions pump. New SAS fan relay (not connected to fan) and diode between two ECU pins.
Yeah, the very early cars seem to have replaceable ball joints, but all the rest, nope. This car spent most of its life parked, so all the rubber booties and bushings were dry-rotted, and all the ball joints/tie rods are notchier than hell. I replaced with aftermarket, hope they get the car to 200k. Or at least 150k. I only got 100-120k out of my Subaru stuff before it rattled and clunked to the point where I had to replace it to avoid going insane. Pretty sure I have to do motor/trans mounts and CVs soon as well. Shifts are a little clunky (autotragic slush box). Andrew Steere Lyndeborough, NH KB1PJY |
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Rally Anarchy © 2014 Corvus Digital –
Part of the AutoShrine Network –
Problems? Send an email to the Webmaster