MK3 Jetta REBUILD

Ok guys. I am in the brainstorming phase of turning my "Production Spec" 1995 Jetta in to a Group 2 capable rally car.

Currently, I am darn near stock, and running 2 way adjustable HotBits.

I have hundreds of pounds of trim, dash, carpet, etc still in the car.

I have stock VR6 strut mounts.

I have zero stitch welding.

WHAT ideas and upgrades should I be doing ASAP???

My next event planned is SnoDrift. I am also planning to do Magnum Opus, Ojibwe, and LSPR. Depending on results at Sno, I may be coerced in to 100 Acre Wood. Nemadji is always on the radar.

I have had normal beginner results, and speed factor is nearing 40.

I have never heard anyone bad mouth a steering quickener, and wondering how hard it would be to incorporate a "circle track" unit. Cut, align, and reweld?


I have a long list and looking for input!

Thanks.


Here is a link to pics of the car when I bought it last spring.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150573560276370.371154.49931201369&type=3

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Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2013 11:41AM by Dante.

How good do you want to do?
And what's the work and $$ budget?

Gearing, a good Gripper diff, Coleman quickener, brakes, real suspension, and then some compression at least 11 to 11.5 and a serious cam are all good dollar to laugh returns.

And strengthening: rear beam, better spindle and hub in back, stronger control arms and maybe add a little to stiffen the actual upright in front (VWs are really spindly spindles/hubs/CV and easy to make significantly stronger)
Double skin a few places, weld cheesy captive nuts,


Or short budget: 4.6 final drive.11;1 comp, a cam, a diff, and better rear beam/hubs/brakes..then mash the foot down

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Suspension, tires, gearing.

I don't like hotbits. Way too stiff and seem prone to failure. Paul Koll and I killed a set at Sno Drift once, we popped the hood between stages to check things over and the top adjusters (along with the gas charge and shock oil) went shooting off into the snow. The rear end of the honda skitters all over the place because of the rock hard springs back there (its got revalved bilsteins and stock integra springs up front, so thats pretty decent.) The hotbits in front reportedly lasted about a mile with a Himes behind the wheel before they died. The car came with a bucket full of broken hotbits. If you don't want to buy new shocks/struts at least get some proper rate springs. For Sno Drift you'll ideally want something about as soft as stock. I ultimately plan on replacing the hotbits in the rear, for now I'm just going to get some softer springs.

What do you have for a transmission on that thing? A better final drive is lotsa fun.

You have diff? The welded in the honda is fun, can't beat the price either. Forces you to get on the gas super early (so that it actually turns), and then wherever the wheels are pointed thats the direction you go when you stomp on it. Buy a couple sets of lifetime warranty axles from your parts store of choice, exchange them between every event so you have freshies on the car and a set of fresh spares.

Steering quickener is awesome. I barely had to take my hands off the wheel at LSPR to do any shuffling around, only when I got real sideways because of the too-stiff rear springs.

So what, maybe $1000 for better springs, steering quickener, proper final drive and a welded diff? That stuff should make the car go better.

I have been told my gearing is in the 4.2x range. I have not confirmed off the tranny code yet. (Soon). Open diff currently.

I have been told my suspension settings are on the stiff side, and confirmed by my "jump" pic from Buffalo River Super Special at Ojibwe this year (minimal immediate droop). An Iorio video from Canada scared me years ago, and I'm terrified of "bouncing" off the stage road.

I haven't had any issues with the suspension yet, but that may be because I don't know any different.

Gearing wise: I made an unwise, but economically necessary move and bought new rims and switched to 15" tires. I am running and plan to for the future, National teams take-offs. So now top of 3rd gear is around 80mph. So obviously 5th is nill.

Engine: I am replacing again, with another junkyard replacement ($400). So since I am a machinist by trade, maybe I should take off head and shave .030"??

I have a spare rear beam, and it looks very stout. I will have to look at the hubs, I know I have had bearings and brakes dragging, so time to upgrade there.

I guess I will have to start at step one, and get her in the garage, and start dissassembly and pictures!

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

Yes, 110% yes, omfg yes on steering quickener.

It's one of those things I really wish someone had pushed me to get early on. I just finally had one put into my car at the last event, and holymotherfuckinggod does it make life so much easier. Much more confident to bomb into the corners without getting all crossed up. The confidence to put more angle into your steering means you can come into the corners hotter and bleed off speed by getting sideways, means that flicks are literally just flicks of your wrists and the car just telepathically goes where you want it to go.

Now after tires and suspension I am going to be a huge advocate for taking the time to install a steering quickener. Best $130 and 8 hours of fab time I ever spent on this car.

Quote
Carl S
Suspension, tires, gearing.

These things are key IMO.

I find it interesting about the steering quickener; fact is, if it makes you that much more comfortable to be tossing the car, then it sounds like a very worthwile upgrade!

Ok now we have more info, we can maybe make better suggestions..

And the thing about a lot of these suggested mods is the very thing you mentioned "I haven't had any issues with the suspension yet, but that may be because I don't know any different. "

A significant portion of the guys I make stuff for previously had other stuff that when they had it, thy thought "I guess this is "good" , but that may be because I don't know any different. "

And often when they were pondering by the side of the stage with broken ____________________ or dead _______________, they concluded they didn't know how to drive or they fucked up or something....(which may be true) but whatever their job was, they were HELPED by the stupid short travel rock har damping, 10" springs coil binding (and going solid), so slow steering they got behind and scared themselves, or lack of gearing so the don't dare slow too much (cause it will take forever to get back up to speed) so they throw the car at turns---and slide off the outside, and on and on...

It's hard enough doing this without the equipment making the job worse, not better.

NOTE: if you have 4.2x gearing, that barely compensates for the larger overall tire diameter of a knobby gravel tire so if you're planning a good diff, like Gripper (hint hint--not KAAZ--because of extremely poor customer support in USA) and have to open up the box, that's a good time for a refresh and swapping final drive..4.63 is a good all round thing, then you can use 5th and get maybe 105mph or 110 maybe (if the motor will rev, and there's no reason it can't. The VW motors are good solid simple motors...)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Eh, and what engine are you actually running? Your details say 1995 Jetta with a VR6 engine which is also known as "the anchor" as it is such a weighty beast.
If it is a 12 valve VR6 then shaving the head won't significantly raise compression as the engine runs the combustion chamber in the piston a la heron head stylée.

Over here in da UK stock gearing for a mk3 VR6 is a 3.3:1 FD in an 02A box. Great for land speed records if you have 20mile straights. Best oem ratio option is 4.25:1 which is fairly common in mk4 1.8T 02J gearbox equipped vehicles.*

* If ordering an 02A / 02J diff be wary of differing crownwheel IDs between 02A / early 02J and later 02J variants.

Got any pics of your Jetta suspension front knuckles? At 1995 they are probably already 5 stud with stronger wishbones and better geo. Of course in the states maybe the Jetta is different from what I am thinking so just ignore my waffling......

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2013 04:12PM by danster.

Quote
danster
Over here in da UK stock gearing for a mk3 VR6 is a 3.3:1 FD in an 02A box. Great for land speed records if you have 20mile straights. Best oem ratio option is 4.25:1 which is fairly common in mk4 1.8T 02J gearbox equipped vehicles.*

* If ordering an 02A / 02J diff be wary of differing crownwheel IDs between 02A / early 02J and later 02J variants.

Just for clarification, when I said the lowest oem FD ratio is 4.25 from the Golf mk4 1.8T 02J box. I meant to say the crownwheel and pinion is taken from that box and installed in the VR box. This is because the bellhousings for the VR and 4 cylinder engines differ so it is not possible to bolt up a 4 cylinder box to a VR engine.

I manage to view your pics in the link in your first post. That was some jump and landing!!
It looks like you run 4 stud wheels and I can just make out a heavier type front wishbone. Is that standard? Just wondering if it was 5 stud and has been modified to 4 stud by some means.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

I am running the 12 valve 2.8. Yes, it is heavy and way in the front.

I do have cell phone pictures of all four corners. I will have to host and link later.

Here are a few videos from Ojibwe.

We ganked our alignment an hour before Expose, by changing a lower control arm and not correcting, so that will explain the strange driving and steering wheel position. (The car was pigeon toed and darting left to right) We placed 5th in Group2 out of 17 cars.

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

Oh, and the 4 lug. Yes it is, and always was... as the original owner had dozens of 4x100 wheels and zero 5 lug.

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

Quote
Dante
Oh, and the 4 lug. Yes it is, and always was... as the original owner had dozens of 4x100 wheels and zero 5 lug.

If you can get a couple of decent pics of the knuckle / bottom balljoint and wishbone area that would help identify what is on the car.
Also measure brake rotor size and if possible remove a front disc to show the drive flange so we can tell if it is originally a 4 stud or has been a modified 5 stud (holes welded and re-drilled) The reason for this is to work out what outer CVs the car is running. It'd obviously be best to run the larger type if possible for reliability.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

You can get a short rack from quaife so don't fuck around with a quickener. For what you will pay for hot bits, step up a little bit more and get John's stuff. Or, get some bilstein hds and uprated street springs from shine racing services.

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Quote
wvonkessler
You can get a short rack from quaife so don't fuck around with a quickener. For what you will pay for hot bits, step up a little bit more and get John's stuff. Or, get some bilstein hds and uprated street springs from shine racing services.

Quaiffe rack is manual rack.
I a car with horribly unequal driveshaft lengths quick rack manual, and any grip and its a bitch..
Colemans small quickener like I got Derek Bottles is nice. much smaller than previous tings and so easier to graft in..

And no the so called HD are short travel, even if their total OAL is about same as mine..
Which would you rather have: 160mm short travel and still have to do some slip over kit or 190mm travel and fat CrMo threaded tubes?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
wvonkessler
You can get a short rack from quaife so don't fuck around with a quickener.

Quaife rack is manual and 2.9 turns lock to lock for $300. Stock power rack is 3.1 lock to lock. Barely any difference. Add a 1:1.5 quickener (~$100) to a power rack and get about 2 turns lock to lock with a little bit of cutting and welding. Plus I don't think the quaife rack works in a mk3, anyways.